Falco250

Has anyone tried the new Brodak .049 Mk II R/C engine?:

http://www.brodak.com/shop_productde...roductID=8825#

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I wonder why they fail to provide any specifics like top rpm with "X" prop, weight, etc......but I see they DO provide a a full list of "required" items like a spare crank, engine stand, etc......

If Brodak flies what they sell, they should very proudly announce what this fairly high priced engine puts out.

Brodak should have no problem furnishing a run sheet that shows RPM, prop and fuel used.

Mr Cox

I have one that I haven't run yet....

Looks very similar to their CL version, appart from the carb, which in turn lacks both an airbleed and a spring/racket for the needle...

DeviousDave

I saw one of these at Toledo. It was rough looking. Much worse casting quality than my CL version. Hope it turns out to be a good motor, just can't see why anyone would buy one with all the NIB Norvels selling on FeEbay for the same price.

Mr Cox

Here are the numbers from the manual that comes with the engine;

Quote:

PERFORMANCE: With a 6-3 Master Airscrew plastic propeller, Merlin standard plug and Brodak 10-11.5/11.5 fuel, the useable RPM range was found to be 4700 to 15000 RPM. Try props from five to seven inches in diameter in various pitches to find what best suits your need.

Does any one understand what fuel that would be?

Mr Cox

The casting looks perhaps slightly nicer than on the CL one I have.

I was planning to fit a turbo head-button on mine and use the stock head as a clamp for it, but I haven't found the time and/or inspiration yet...

proptop

My Feedback: (8)

My guess on the fuel would be 10% nitro, 23%oil (11.5% castor/11.5% synth )?

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

why is it everyone hates on these engines, the tt 07 and any others that are still being made lol. Yes i know you can still get NIB norvels. I see all the time people hating on them. So what if they cant turn high rpm compaired to our old engines lol atleast we have something to play with still. I would like to think if there wasnt so many haters, then people would be buying these less performing engines and someone would see that the market is still there and maybe come out with a new strong running 1/2A. I have several of these engines but havent flown any yet, but still buy them when i see them at the hobby shop just so that they will order more and hopefully they will start getting other 1/2A stuff in the store.

dennis

My Feedback: (90)

Most newer flyers forget that when Cox introduced the baby Bee in the 50's it was designed to turn a 6/3 prop at roughly 14.5 RPM. Which if you think about it is not too shabby.
The Brodak 049 Mk 2 is really not a performance engine but rather designed to fly a model at normal flying speeds. In other words it's a nice sport flyer engine. well suited to fly a 1/2A Goldberg Falcon or a Sterling Mini mambo or a sport 1/2A C/L model.
Dennis

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

I imagine most newer flyers have no idea what any cox engine is and dont want to bother with it,, the TT.07 is a decent sport engine, not a power house...hard to lure people into 1/2a when the engines still being made are marginal....Rog

dennis

My Feedback: (90)

My response was in answer to the question asked in the opening thread. As to Cox engines by and large the worst of them was better then the TT07 so in that respect your correct. !/2A engines are a dying breed being replaced by electric power.No one it seems wants to take the time to acquire any mechanical skills anymore. Plug and play and ARF's seem to be the only thing being offered to the public anymore. Shame that the the hobby been reduced to toy status.
no obnoxious replies please.
Dennis.

Mr Cox

People are even flying CL with electrics now, I really thought/hoped that I would never have to see that... [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv9aGUFmqiQ]Electric CL[/link]

Back on topic, I have only bench run the Brodak CL one but it could surely fly something designed for a Babe Bee. It is just a pity though that they make the effort to introduce a new engine, but can't be bothered to do it with any kind of finess. There is no engine that will throttle properly with simply a rotating barrel and no adjustments on the low end. Even a fixed airbleed would have helped. Sure, this is very easy too add your self but it does not help to attract any interest for this engine size. At my local field I pretty sure that some would fly 1/2A if engines were easier to find and by now they also have a pretty bad reputation.

The CL version can do about 6000-14500rpm (on an MAS 5.5x4) when fitted with an exhaust throttle; [link=http://rcuvideos.com/video/Brodak-MkII-wmv]RCUvideo[/link]
I just have to find a good plane for it, maybe some oldschool FF would do...

digital_trucker

I've been waiting for a peek at this, and of course it's terribly disappointing. I see they naturally went with a standard plug and no muffler whatsoever. Honestly, do NO 1/2A engine manufacturers ever read these threads? Why is it so difficult to produce a decent lightweight 1/2A engine with an actual bolt-on muffler, an adjustable airbleed carb, and a turbo plug? Seems like it'd be simplicity in itself to duplicate the port timings from a BigMig into a somewhat re-engineered crankcase. The carb, muffler, and plug technologies are hardly state-of-the-art you know.

Personally, I'd like to see Cox International market an R/C upgrade kit for the Medallion (Because the Medallion doesn't utilize SPI) - all it would need is a slight redesign of the plastic carb whatsit, an adjustable airbleed carb, and a muffler with a pressure tap.

Hell, it's already been done once before... http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/..._td_050_rc.jpg

skaliwag

My Feedback: (1)

The Mk 2 does come with a muffler

digital_trucker

Mr. Cox, howsabout posting some pics of the actual engine and what comes with it?

Mr Cox

Okay, there is not much show but here are two pictures. It comes with what looks like a Merlin plug (blue insulator). I may have lost a spring for the needle, can't find mine anyway. There is no low-end adjustment (not even a fixed airbleed or cuts on the barrel). The casting is slightly different from the CL version that I have but it might just be a later batch. There is a tiny bit of a pinch at TDC with the plug removed, but no real ABC pinch. Instructions are the same as the CL with an additional note on how to run-in the RC, i.e. like the CL with open throttle.

The Mk II does not come with any muffler, that is the CS/Mk I.

Spinner and thrust washer looks nice, just wish they had spent that effort on the carb too or perhaps instead...

digital_trucker

Hmm - looks like there might be enough room to add an adjustable airbleed to that carb. Figuring out a head to use inserts or a turbo plug is no real problem, of course. I wonder if there's enough clearance between the carb body and the crankcase for a steel strap? Might be a way to add a muffler to it. *sigh* I really wish someone would get it right the first time (see my plea to Cox International above).

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

I second that in spades. Worked with Dan Rutherford with the VA .049 MK1 and then Larry Driskill and the MK2. Finally, VA did all of that with one or two production runs and then,,,, stopped making them. That took 12 YEARS.

I got a teaser with the Brodak MK1, got it from 12K to 19K, same prop, same fuel and then,,,, NOTHING.

Now that same Brodak with a Cox crank, does 21K.

Not a peep from the industry.

All they have to do is ask.

Someone posted a link to the history of the Rossi engine. We found out that Rossi is Russian, working out of Italy. So I sent Mr. Rossi a link to my YouTube channel and some posts regarding upgrading the Brodak. The only response was, why are you contacting Mr. Rossi. My response was, that I was just trying to pique his interest in 1/2A engines. Since then, nothing,,, but you never know.

Forget the Medallion or any Cox engine. As soon as you put on a muffler you get some serious power loss and overheating. The RC .05 suffered from that and they had to hog out the stem giving you a serious leaker. And it was bloody heavy in comparison.

digital_trucker

Yep, all of the work has been done...in bits and pieces. I emailed Brodak asking them why in the world they did such a halfway job on it...the response I got back was "that was the design, sorry". I distinctly remember talking to them over a year ago begging them to NOT do what they ended up doing with this thing. Needless to say, Brodak won't be getting any of MY money. It's high darned time we started NOT buying substandard crap, maybe then we'd get listened to instead of dictated to. That's why I'm not really much of a fanboy for Cox. Much of the situation we're in now can be laid to what's been done under that brand name over the past 30 years, give or take.

I still maintain that if a company like OS can make those beautiful multicylinder engines that a handful of people worldwide buy (and only a fraction of those actually get flown) then they could easily manufacture the kind of engine we're looking for. What's that? What about profits, you ask? How much engineering and work went into producing something like that OS straight-4? A heckuva lot more than would be needed to produce the kind of engine we've been begging for for years/decades. The argument that it can't be done profitably just doesn't hold water.

Bah, all I ever hear are a bunch of excuses...

My reply to Brodak's response:

I retract what I wrote earlier, I'll not be purchasing one. I had high hopes that Brodak would at last be the company to fulfill a decades long demand for a modern 1/2A engine utilizing standard performance features found in large and small engines alike. Sadly, it was a vain hope. Even more sad is that you would put your name to an engine that is substandard and inadequate for it's intended purpose.


An email I just sent to O.S. Engines Japan (not the USA distributor, waste of time) [email protected]

We in the 1/2A community have been wanting a modern R/C engine for at least 20 years or more. Not one single company has stepped up to the plate to produce the engine we desire, except in extremely limited runs. We want an engine no larger than 1cc displacement, having a carburetor with an adjustable airbleed, a bolt-on muffler with a pressure tap, and a turbo style glow-plug. O.S. Engines would seem to me to be the most likely company to satisfy the demand left by Cox engines (and they never did address the modern demands). The lastest offering is by Brodak, and that engine is substandard to say the least.

Brodak MKII .049 RC - http://www.brodak.com/shop_productde...ProductID=8825

The closest competitor is the Thunder Tiger GP07, which is another substandard engine and comes nowhere near what we desire.

Thunder Tiger GP .07 - http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXRWT3&P=0

If you would take the time to browse through the many engine-related threads on this forum - http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/forumid_70/tt.htm - you would see that there is indeed a very real market for the engine I'm describing. A market just waiting for an engine manufacturer to fill. Will O.S. Engines be the company that finally steps up to the plate after decades of neglect? I certainly hope so! I've seen pictures of that beautiful limited-edition run of your .06 engine. It is a true gem! Obviously an engine like that isn't meant for mass production, but a mass-produced version is very much in demand!

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Well, I've been putting it off for a long, long time. I meant to get a Brodak MK2 and give it a go but I wanted to hear from others about this engine that at least has the metallurgy right. But it seems that it's no VA and that itself might mean that the working bits are sub standard. I can always install Norvel bits,,,,

OK, done, just pulled the pin,,, one is on its way.

Will keep y'all posted.

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

then you've obviously never owned an OS .10 FSR, no airbleed, no low end adjustment, no provision for muffler pressure and yet it has the sweetest idle of just about any engine i've ever owned.

airraptor

My Feedback: (66)

digital trucker. I think that is part of where we are now is because of people like you not wanting to buy these engine because they wont turn a prop at your desired rpm. I think because people are not buy what ever engine is still being made that they the bean counters say there isnt much interest in these typ of engines. that being said they the engine mfg dont have the desire to go out and try to make a stronger engine because there seems to be no demand.

What is 50 bucks to most people now days anyway. two gallons of fuel. If every one of us went a invested (bought these so called junk engines) 50-60 dollars then the mfg will start thinking of making stronger engines because of the investment we made and it will show them there is a demand. I think that with today's servos, recievers and batterys we can make a lighter plane that will perform the same as a plane flown 10-15 yrs ago will a slightly stronger engine. if we dont continue to buy what ever 1/2A size engines that are out now they will stop too. then what will we have once all the parts are used up?

how many wizards were flown at 22-25 ounces with TD .049 and black widows. now build that same plane with lighter wood, and eq at around 17-18 ounces might fly the same. Also digital if its so cheap and easy to make a engine whay are you plans for our next super 1/2A. i am not trying to single you out but just your way of thinking.

The biggest killer of these smaller engines was the emergence of the Lipo battery and Brushless motors.

Mr Cox

LOL, then you have obviously not owned many engines...

I have a few PET, MAX, FSR and FP from OS but I never bothered with the LA ones. OS may make some nice four-strokes but in the small two-strokes they are nothing special, in my mind.

It is all about physics, there is no way a straight hole in a barrel can adjust the fuel properly over a wide range of openings. There are a few emulations of fixed airbleeds though. The barrel can have slot or the whole can be conical, the upper hole in the carb can be larger than the lower one etc. But there is definately a need for an airbleed function and it should preferably be adjustable. How hard can it be to incorporate a screw and hole anyway...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Well, I think everyone should buy at least a couple of these engines, then that will send a real message to the manufacturer that it's a POS and they had better imptove it, "or else"........[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

digital_trucker

airraptor, I think you misunderstand my position. It's not simply a matter of power output that I'm decrying, it's the fact that all of these engines fail to use technology common in engines for 30 years now. The closest one is the TT07, and that's tremendously overweight. There simply is no excuse to manufacture an engine whose standard features don't include those incorporated on every engine made since the '70s. If we all had the mindset you're promoting a state of the art military airplane would feature exposed flying wires and an engine that whirls around it's own crankshaft. Simply put; what was acceptable 30, 40 years ago and more isn't any longer.

1/2A manufacturers these days just throw together whatever they have, often with extremely poor quality control standards. It's all very shoddy. If we (the market for these things) don't insist that manufacturers meet a set of standards we want to see then we deserve whatever piece of crap someone condescends to toss our way.

Don't see too many Yugo dealers around anymore...wonder why that is? Using your argument, that was a perfectly fine automobile and fie on anyone who insisted on better quality.

Tell you what, try convincing that guy at your field flying a quarter scale mustang to use an engine the equivalent of what we have available....let me know how much success you have with that.

Besides all that, there is no NEED for plans for a "new super-duper 1/2A". All that's needed is for a manufacturer to step up to the plate and use what's already been done...put it all together. The Norvel BigMig .061, the VA .049, the Cox .049 Medallion/TD all show what port timings work best. ANY 1/2 that's been converted to use a turbo plug demonstrates where to go on THAT issue.....and the carb/muffler issue is about as state-of-the-art as a toilet plunger. All that's lacking is for US to demand it instead of meekly putting up with whatever we get. The first engine manufacturer that puts all those components together will have a global market all to themselves. Even if you take the position that we're a niche market (seeing all the TT07 and AP/NV061 engines for sale at any swap meet sorta shoots that notion down in flames too) - being the only player ups the numbers quite a bit.