CYCLONIC REACTION !!!
 

[8D] Shhh.....let's keep this on the down low....the BATOUTTAHELL!!! just flew the coop![link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ6PFphoyR0[/link]

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It's doin' a hundred, huh? :D

Love it dude - very impressive! Did you ever figure out why it went rich? What kind of RPMs are we talking mid 30's? Oh wait, I can figure this out... 141 MPH on a 4" pitch prop.... holy moly, over 37K!!!

It's amazing how calm, cool and collected you seem - either you hide it well or this truly is a walk in the park for you!

I'm going to have to dig up that old thread...

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Thanks Joe! It's always a thrill to run the Cyclon, that engine keeps getting better and better.

I had to change the glow plug after that flight, what you see in the film is the engine running like a model diesel after the element is gone.

What is interesting about the speed is we're [lackadaisically [sm=redface.gif]] assuming that the airframe is allowing 100% efficiency out of the prop. What I need to do is look at the Wavoscope again and plot the rpm doing it that way.

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2735Hz+1884Hz = 4619Hz/2 = 2309.5 Hz

x 60 = 138570

You're tracking the 4th harmonic series, 138570/4 = 34643 rpm.

I believe that's how it works.

MJD

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MJD, I look at 2 consecutive waves and jot down the coming and going freqs, then take the difference and the average of the 2.
Looking at the 2nd pass just now and it looks better than the first. Last time I had it out it was only doing 115-120...most likely it could have been different fuel.
I might fit it with a little plastic bellcrank and some of that Goldberg dacron line, now that it looks strong enough for control line duty....[:-]

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Man, that thing is schmokin'!



Gotta remember one thing about props: They have an airfoil-airfoils provide lift. For this reason, props actually fly faster than their RPM x pitch thru a solid medium would suggest.

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zoom ZOOM Impressive!

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DD....The most fortunate part about this deal is being able to buy 2 dollar APC 4.2x4 props that work perfectly right off the shelf. It makes me wonder how APC can be right on top of 99% of everyone's needs from .049 all the way on up.
These props are too small for rulebook 1/2A pylon racers...I wonder where the demand is coming from? 1/2A combat? "Outlaw" 1/2A pylon?
I think we take it for granted what a great company APC is.

OZMO.....think that engine would pull one of your gliders OK?

Now, when are we gonna start seeing some Profi .049 projects break ground around here?

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CP, if you are up to the risk, I think you should might oughtta try some of the smaller APC electric props. The 4.1-4.1 and 4.5-4.2, specifically. [>:]

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Those E props can see some insane rpm [like over 50,000] in some electric powered racers?

I wonder if some guy in APC's R&D dept. has ever taken a Cyclon, mounted one of those E props to it, then commenced to blow one up.....then say, "Yup, these are for electric power only"?

The biggest fear is a shaft run with no fuel cut-off......[:-]

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Yeah, they really do spin up near that. I haven't kept up with F5D setups for a long time, but back when my friends were doing it the De Riguer setup in 2000 was an APC 4.7-4.7 spinning at 32-34krpm static, closer to 40k unloaded. The trend since has been smaller props and higher voltage from what little I've heard, I do know that some guys were flying 4.1-4.1's with really hot winds/cell counts back in 2004 or so.

A Cyclon will turn a 4.7-4.7 at 27.5krpm. It's a little unhappy with it, but it's close. I didn't have time to play with compression, but I think a larger prop at a little slower RPM might be the ticket. I know that when Matchless and I talked about his new Caliente I told him to try the "E" props and rotate the motor to the wing/fuse junction. Don't remember exactly how much faster it was than before, but 14mph sticks in my head. At any rate, an APC 4.7-4.7 at 27.5k is about what an F5D motor used to turn that prop in the late 90's and those were 150mph planes that weighed 32oz. and had minimum wing areas that had to be met. I think 165-170 is possible out of a 1/2A with the right airframe, prop and motor setup. If the CL guys can hit 150 while dragging a set of lines, we can definitely go faster.

This video claims 42k, don't know if that's loaded or not. Sounds like loaded. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U9N0...eature=related

This is a single blade prop from SuperCool on an Avionik. Bigger to take advantage of efficiency at better Reynold's numbers and to put enough load on the motor. Obnoxious-loud, perfect for doing a doppler reading! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3Z0p...eature=related

ETA: Here's another super high rpm setup in a Speed400 racer that's got an insane brusless setup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68_75...layer_embedded

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Those are some smokin' set ups!
The problem with trying to run any engine in the real high frequencies isn't just the wear and tear on parts, but on the radio gear. It even erodes unmoving parts, like the fit between the liner and the case, or the liner and the head. It even can attack bladder tanks and make them pop for no apparent reason.
So there are more troubles with taking glow to the next level in rpm than meets the eye at first glance. RPM has always been the easy way.......but there is a practical limit.
So, if a Cyclon .061 powered plane can go faster with more prop and less rpm, that sounds like a constructive [and realistic] direction to go. To make more torque, the engine will need more nitro and a compression adjustment.
The guys who are doing 150 in 1/2A C/L speed aren't doing it with "off the shelf" props or engines...they have quite a lot of expensive and time consuming trial and error invested in their set ups.

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And I doubt they make 150 every flight despite all the work leading up to the event. Making 160 with an RC job should be less difficult than 150 with a ukie I would guess.

When I get to my Profi .061 sometime this millenium, I have some 4.25 x 4.5, 5, and 5.5 CF props to try out on that little jobbie that's waiting for servos and Rx now. But I'm probably packing more drag than you so the higher pitches may be useless.

MJD

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The present set up here is 4.2x4......37,000rpm......140mph..... .452HP....with a gas prop

If the E props require less HP to turn for any given dimensions, then higher speeds should be pretty easy to get if the model isn't already at the wall.

So, just an interesting set of numbers to consider while bench racing......

3.8x4.75.......40,000rpm......180mph........453HP

I doubt that a 3.8" prop would pull this plane over 90 mph in real life, but if you could build something small enough.....?
In the case of a 3.8" prop pulling a plane to 180 mph, it would probably have to have a 12 inch span and weigh no more than 6 ozs to sustain that speed for more than 50 feet leveled out......:D

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Yep, basically the idea is to trade off a few percent of the peak HP/RPM for a larger increase in prop efficiency. That, and to take advantage of the E-prop's thinner airfoil and aspect ratio. They are a much better prop than the glow models, just can't stand up to repeated abuse when Clem cartwheels his airplane and stresses the hub then keeps on flying-they ain't Rubber Ducky props, that's for sure.

I'm holding hope for the Profi .06.. Jim booker told me it had a lot more torque than the .049 and spun 3k faster, which I translate to mean that it allowed more lattitude with prop choice. Hope it doesn't take until I turn 50 to find out-my mold was specifically set up to take Cyclons if need be. Just wish I had a place to fly these engines[:o].. I can't even fly my F5D's at my current weekend location-too many houses to be safe.

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No idea if a 3.8" prop would pull it, but I think a 130" plane is about ideal for a 1/2A speed plane. Since it would have to turn hard fairly often, this works out to be an acceptable area to keep the wingloading down and induced drag low. The only bad thing is that a proper racing airfoil (RG14, MH-30, RK40 etc.) would mean a really thin wing so it would need bagged with glass under the skin and a proper I beam spar.

I'm actually a little leary of building little planes this fast.. It's one thing if you can make a phone call to Russia and have a molded F5D show up at your door and know that the engineering is already there and done. It's another thing for you to invest sweat and tears only to find out that you have a serious flutter problem and no throttle to shut it down. I built a JMG Penetrator/Cheap Thrills last year for the SMALL fly-in that I didn't make. It had an F5D power system in it and from 70 or 80 I couldn't give it full power for more than two or three seconds-it would flutter at about 140 and do a large dutch roll with no aileron control. Granted this is a much larger wing than we are talking about with big ailerons, but on a 1/2A that fast you might not even hear the flutter start until it was too late. [X(]

You ever experience 1/2A flutter CP?

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DD, keep your eyes peeled for hay fields out in the sticks. You could even ask at the Co-op when and where the farmers meet to get your foot in the door. If there's a will, there's a way.
I would trade "work time" for flying priviledges if it came to that. You figure there's work time at club fields, anyway.

So, there must be at least 3 or 4 Profi owners I know of now who haven't rolled anything out yet?....[>:]!!!

Better get something going before they come out with MK IV, MOD 9.......:D

FLUTTER!![X(]....yes I have had the Cyclon .061 VOODOO / VAMPIRE make some buzzing sounds at top speed and did some loops to calm it down. I'm not sure what was making the noise.....it could have been the pushrod rattling on the fuselge where it exits. Even though that pushrod has FG tubing slipped over it, it could still be feeding a buzz out to that stabilator?
This plane is a little bit jumpy in pitch.

No harm, no foul just yet with the other SWRs.

I use 2-56 pushrods for the torque rods and linkages, full strength EZ hinges and covering across all the gaps.

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You have the coolest planes Pigg. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...eeth_smile.gif

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Yeah I suck, I know... :D

Another one of my projects that is, if it were on your bench, about 1.5 hours from the flight line. Needs servos and Rx.

We'll see how my wings hold up.. I glassed the center 6" anyhow. And it doesn't have much to hold up and turn, the airframe covered and painted, with engine less radio and bladder is 6.9 ounces. So it might hit the air at 11 ounces or so.

It will most definitely be ready for, or destroyed by the NC rally.

What servos are you using on this sort of thing CP, I think you said HS-65HB's? Those are what I had in mind.

MJD

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Thanks Jeffie. You can see for yourself how there isn't very much to them...but I have more fun with these than some .40 powered monstrosities.

MJD
All the original SWRs used HS 55s and they worked pretty good. The Mustang and F-16 still have them. Most HS55 failures I take the blame for with botched take offs, rough landings, etc.
I switched to HS 65s and they are definitely good enough, but cost about $25 now at the LHS. If you shop around and aren't in a hurry, they're probably cheaper than that somewhere.
Sounds like you're just a couple sessions away from having your's ready....[8D]

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I'm seriously considering stuffing my Profi 0.8 into a old school Sokol 400 pylon airframe I have. I'm sure the airplane would fair better with a light engine like a VA. I haven't flown anything this fast in a long time though. My current zippy airplane maybe does 110.

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he Vampire is totally awesome and I dont even like the real one . http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/js/f...used_smile.gif

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I was inspired [stole the idea] from a .25-.36 sized version that Weston UK has for sale as either an ARF or a kit.
Don't you think they "nailed it " pretty good?...[8D] That plane would be a lot of fun with a Nelson .36 combat special.

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Or a Dynajet with the tailpipe hanging way out back.. :D

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Same here, HS-55's for 12-13 bucks, $23.99 or so for the 65's. But with this little jewel of an engine I will splurge the extra 20 bucks for peace of mind. I want to check them out anyhow.

MJD