steve,

ok thx, im with you. just thought for a minute i may have missed something. thanks for the link to Gordons book. will have to do some serious reading. trade-offs are always present and it is getting to know what is best for each application that counts.
Exactly why one guy will love Engine XXX an another hates it. the most popular engines are I suppose those that get the best trade-offs and work for most people. they become the most 'user friendly' and therefore popular.

cheers
clive