Thank you Larry, my point entirely but it didn't come off that way and once the people who have never met me started with the negitive attacks I stopped posting until now. The guy didn't want me to teach him anything; he just wanted to drop off his poorly assembled plane, at my second job and have us fix what he screwed up for free and using his words not mine" I just want to fly, you modelers can waste your time building". Please close this thread; as Bob Frantz said I had enough that day and I'm sorry I started it. I hope all of you enjoy what ever part of the hobby you chose.