ORIGINAL: hook57
David, (Dox),
I sure forgot to mention which David, I didn't think about it even though I replied to the other David! Without a doubt I appreciate input from both of you anyhow. I also appreciate the time you took with this reply, very informative.
Always happy to offer what little insight I may have gained in the interest of beautiful classics! [8D]
ORIGINAL: hook57
I actually did get the white primer sealer but was not planning on using it unless I was not happy with the grey primer build up. I never thought to use the sealer first, but I didn't get the self-etching type as I didn't think it would be necessary (works great on metal though as I've used other brands in the past).
I think you're right Mark - the self etching shouldn't be needed on our glass/CF fuses.
ORIGINAL: hook57
This Tiger Tail 3 fuse is not as smooth as I would prefer, not at all like the GP Tipo I have. The TT3 has taken quite a bit of work via epoxy/micro and polyester filler to get it were I'll leave it alone. By the way, that green filler you mentioned is Evercoat, at least the brand I used was. I do use Bondo, but only sparingly and in very thin layers.
Evercoat - that's it! Thanks for reminding me. I don't know where to get it here but I'll look around.
ORIGINAL: hook57
I haven't sprayed a RC plane in 30 years... That's why I like that all these folks have mentioned and/or tried these various rattle can methods.
What I plan to do is to apply the build primer, take it down with 320, apply a second coat and take it down with 320, apply the scratch filler primer and take that down with 400 or 600. If I'm happy with it, I would then shoot the primer sealer and then top coat.
That's why I developed interest in the various can formulations as well. No compressor, no gun. Rattlers have their advantages but also some drawbacks.
ORIGINAL: hook57
The rustoleum auto paint caught my attention last summer, I redid an old scratch built Tiger Tail with LK which wrinkled to all hel!. I removed that, applied the Rusto primer, wet sanded, and then shot the Rusto high temp engine enamel (chevy orange) on it, and it came out surprisingly nice. Not extremely shiny, but not at all dull.
Mark, was that LK paint that wrinkled or was it MK covering that did? The enamels are nice in that they are quite glossy when they just finish drying and they level out nicely too at the right temperature if flowed on. I found that wet sanding them down leaves a nice "oily" flattish color base coat. If you really want it to be glossy though, the clear top coat is much more reflective than the gloss on the enamels.
ORIGINAL: hook57
So when I saw the other Rustos (which look like a newer line of paints) I thought it worth the try. They (autozone) have it in an acrylic enamel too, in some pretty nice bright colors. If I use the urethane (think Imron), I have no worries about adhesion as we've applied it over all sorts of things at the hangar and it grips!
It seems many different paint type formulations use acrylic as a type of plasticiser and adhesion promoter. Most lacquers, enamels and modern urethanes are now acrylic based. Modern acrylic urethanes are better than the older polyester urethanes (polyurethane) we used 10-20 years ago. I hear Imron is great paint but apparently toxic like few others. Personally, I like the idea of reducing the amount of toxicity we are exposed to in our hobby to a minimum so I'm all for un-catalyzed primers and paint leaving 2K formulations to CC's for protection and fuel proofness. While it might seem like painting with kids stuff, using water borne finishes is the future (thanks to the EPA). They are thinner and lighter and after having seen what can be done with them in Jeff's Aurora scratch build, it's a matter of practice and... perhaps spraying equipment. But it's true that urethane will stick to just about anything - it's meant to.
Still, again due to new laws, rattler formulations have and are changing rapidly and I recall going to my suppliers last fall and having to scavenge for cans of what I was using as they were all being pulled off the shelf and replaced with their "current" new formulations. All the Krylon color paint seems to be gone for example and has been replaced with primer/color combination cans. I'm not sure what happened to their primers but those have undoubtedly changed too. The built in primer might not be a bad thing as it might assist with the mixing of paint types if one happens to have gone there as well as promoting adhesion to underling base coats (e.g., white or yellow).
ORIGINAL: hook57
As for the quantity, I'll get a few more cans of the primer just to be sure I have enough on hand. However, the DC cans have 8oz of material but the Rusto has 12oz. So 2 cans of Rusto is 3 cans of DC, thus my thinking 2 cans to be enough. So, let me know what you think.
Thanks David, and you too David!
Mark
I don't know how much of the model you'll be painting (i.e, just fuse and vertical, stab as well or entire model) but I found that I used something like a ratio of 3:1 primer to paint. In my particular case it was because I was priming in between layers due to mixed paint types (which of course no one sensible would do...
) but still, the primer, because it is much more volatile (think, dries fast!) it will also empty at a faster rate than a can of enamel for example. And of course, much of what you are shooting gets sanded off and reshot so you end up needing a fair bit more primer than paint. I think I used 2 x 12 oz cans of white for the base coat, not much for trim colors (well, one can each colour but not necessarily emptied) but about 5 cans of primers. Once sprayed, applied and sanded you only gain a few ounces though not the 8 or 12 oz x 5 which one might at first expect.
I think the botched Tipo CC job netted me an additional 1.25 oz to the fuse paint job. Overall weight gain went from 32.1 oz to 37.8 oz for a total fuse/vertical finish gain of 5.7 oz. The finished wing (part paint/mostly MK) ended up at 30 oz for a total airframe weight of under 68 oz (4.25 lbs). Without botching the finish and using compatible colours as well as perhaps using water based paint, I'm pretty sure I can reduce the finish weight 3-4 oz. It seems to me that a classic BPA airframe weight of 4 lbs or less ready for engine, radio and retracts is doable. In other words, keeping the airframe weight at under 50% of the desired/expected AUW of 8 lbs. Some can build glass/foam 58/65" BPA classics at under 8 lbs but not many at under 7.5. Several end up being 8.5 lbs which results in an over 9 lb take off weight once fuel is added. So with that in mind, my goal is to build my next classic to under 8 lbs AUW (< 4 lbs finished airframe weight) for a < 9 lb flying model. Unless of course we are talking about a model with 850 squares or more.
But all that is a lot of stream of consciousness...
Looking forward to seeing your TT come into its colors Mark.
David.