jester s1, I tend to agree with you on your thinking on toy grade planes. I've been involved in model aviation in one way or another for over 50 yrs. In our club, I'd guess 95% of the planes are ARF's, and half of those are foamies. Folks just don't want to take the time to build, hence the popularity of all the cheapy bnf planes. Years ago, my favorite trainer plane was the Sig LT 40, and I still think its hard to beat. I've been away from instructing for several yrs now, so I'm trying to catch up with the changes in trainer airplanes that may have come along. I have a couple of guy's interested in getting started in R/C, and want to get them off to a good start.