Thanks pilliphat,I'm going the cheap route with a 90% accurate tank ,I wonder if they are hollow so I can use a smoker?oh well any way the budget for the panther 2 has been severely cut,I'm gearing up to order a Lowe from Ludwig ,in any case I really enjoyed construction of a project from the ground up,I considered building the tamiya jagdpanther, but anyone can bolt one of those together,I feel my skill set must really grow with each challenge I face in scratch building details,this will net a lot of growth once completed.