Thanks for a great discussion Jyri, Obviously you have a lot of experience with this HH, I have almost none and certainly none in Hawk. Anyway I completely agree with most of what you say. Thanks for the warning about HH on rudder, I was told NEVER put HH on rudder and so have not. One of the main reasons I bought this Hawk (my first turbine) was because of the powerful rudder, Knife edge descent and climb and rolling loops and circles are possible (although I don't like to roll on descending side of loop it is too scary with this jet). I have the typical mixes in my Tx that allow rudder only KE easily without gyro. I find slow axial rolls and rolling maneuvers in general different with the Hawk because while the the rudder is powerful the stabilizer is not, I fly very low rates so I'm often approaching the limits on elevator while still using small amounts of rudder. I'm used to it after 400+ flights but compared to my other planes it is a bit unusual feeling. When I try HH on elevator I will see how I like it.