DB, I think I understand where you are coming from now after your examples. Hovers/TR are basically 100% enigne. The only thing the wing does in a hover/TR is prevent you from spinning like a top. And yes, If your engine dies, even in a harrier, you are probably hosed. But it is not becasue the engine is holding most of the plane up. It is becasue when flying at a high AOA, i.e., stalled, there is a LOT of drag. Without the engine forcing the high AOA wing thru the air, the plane will stop quickly and fall like a brick. If you lose an engine in a harrier, you need a fair amount of altitude to get nose down and build up airspeed such that the wing can fly unstalled again. On my 35%, I'd probably need at least 50 feet of altitude to fly out and land from a dead engine in a harrier. But I'm just guessing as I've never had an engine flame out on that plane. Anyway, from your examples, I can see how one could easily assume the wing isn't doing much.