Thanks FHHUBER I just checked in and saw your post . I'm sure you didn't need me to tell you your right on. THANKS for saving me some typing Rocketman you seam to be having trouble with the difference between airspeed and groundspeed. No one ever said anything about control surfaces of course they work we are talking about AIRSPEED AND GROUNDSPEED. A common thing people do is to add the windspeed to the airspeed of the plane then look at groundspeed to confuse themselfs even more. Simply stated airspeed is airspeed regardless of windspeed and groundspeed. Lets say your plane stall at 5 mph (airspeed) and there is a 10 mph wind, when the plane stalls at the 5 mph (airspeed) the groundspeed ( the speed it looks like it going) will be 5 mph backwards but the plane still (feels) the 5 mph airspeed. And if we turn it around and have a tail wind the planes groundspeed ( the speed it looks like it going) at stall will be 15mph but the plane will still feel the same 5 mph airspeed. Thats as simple as I can make it. Hope it helps.