Heated debate? No nothing like that, I'm just trying to bring the post back to the origional question that's all (always a problem). Rich said he wanted unlimited vertical. You figure what the 160FX did in that Cap and then think of it in a airframe weighing around 1lb less. I think he'll have unlimited vertical, maybe not with authority but with the right prop he should be there. For what it's worth if he doesn't have that awesome vertical he'll have more than a Moki 1.35. No debate here just trying to answer the question.