ed, yes i remember you gave me some great advise in midland a couple of years ago. Thanks for the explanation on pattern.I still like IMAC,but It gets to be a real pain to haul the trailer to the field every time I go and practice,not to mention the expence of keeping a large aircraft going.like i said,I love flying precision and I think pattern might be my next step.I'll try to make it to temple and check it out. thanks mike