I personally don't see how one could love one and hate the other?[sm=confused.gif] Just from my own observation I've noticed that the best 3D pilots in the world all fly pattern / have pattern background. Also, look at the very forum we are talking in. It is a sub forum of 3D, IMAC, and PATTERN. The best pilot in our club travels around the country competing in Pattern. At our Open house last year he was flying a 60 size sport plane 5 feet off the ground inverted doing slow circles. Sure, there's lots of guys that don't fly pattern that can do that, but for him inverted is as natural as right side up. That goes for all the unusual attitudes we put our aircraft in.