thanks joeb thats very helpful. i have fms and a hummingbird model, but i dont have he stuff yet so i cant try it out. i have done it using the keyborad and the models ruder seems to be messed up. do you know of anyplace that i can download a modle of a hb for fms? thanks. i have experiance on cars and trucks and opne firebird XL, but not on anything with a rudder, so this should be interesting.