ORIGINAL: Pjtg0707
ORIGINAL: MHester
Well, I don't consider myself an "expert", but I do have a little experience with design and competing.
Personally I love the UFO, it's the plane that got me interested in pattern in the first place. I remember getting that Tower Catalog and there was Joe, pencil thin mustache, sunglasses, holding his "new" UFO. I almost had a cow I wanted it so bad. I hate to let this one go, because it was Joe's personal plane, and it's autographed....and the freakin electric retracts still work! But I realize that because of what it is, I'll never fly it, and it's gathering dust in my shop. I did see it fly once, and it was a rocket! I loved it, but it was a missle and it's also very heavy.
But compared to the Kaos, it's apples and oranges. It's just a better plane. The Great Escape was even better, I had one of those too. If Joe was designing current 2 meter planes I'd have one (and yes I know about the 2 meter birdy, but it's just a big dirty birdy).
Personally I love planes from that era like the Curare and the Tiporare etc, but you have to fly them like they were meant to be flown, fast and screaming. They ARE dated designs, but I like them a lot. I just don't care for the flying box look of the Kaos, it's just before my time I guess. And it doesn't fly good enough to stand out in any way to make it anything special. So, it's just not for me. And it's not great enough to recommend it for someone else looking for a plane to do what the original poster was wanting to do with it. There are better planes out there. I still say the Widebody 60 is the best plane of it's size, flying wise, out there today. It just totally kicks butt, and it IS something above and beyond. THAT plane I could recommend easily (and have a million times I think).
To each his own, to me a Kaos is just a flying box...stick...something.
-Mike
So, in your opinion, what important technical features and/or rule changes in the past few years makes a 2m plane of modern design "modern"?
So far, all I read is that you don't like this or that because you "don't like them".
Allrighty then. I thought I already touched on some of this in my first post, but perhaps you just didn't read it. I'll make this one bigger so you can't miss it
Lots of little things, but 2 that jump right out: The turnaround style of flying (the box) and much more rudder intensive manuevers.
The box is the easiest to address, so I'll do that one first. The old style patterns had one centered manuever, no turns scored (except landing sequence, etc). After much competition and pushing the envelope, for the size/power restrictions of the day, the best way to handle this and score well was to do it at a relatively fast speed. AKA "ballistic" pattern. Do a split S, go full throttle, get on the pipe, nail your manuever, and strwak the hell out of the other side.
With the 60 degree box, this style of flying simply won't work today. Although some still fly fast and get away with it, it doesn't score well, and you rarely have time for the mandatory straight line between manuevers. Constant speed flying, which means the plane tracks a down line at the same speed as an upline, is what scores the best and presents the best.
Rudder intensive stuff: tons and tons of point rolls, knife edge, etc. While planes like the Kaos WOULD knife edge and point roll, the speed had to be relatively high to achieve and real smoothness in the line. Modern 2 meter planes do this at a much reduced relative speed and give the pilot more time to place his center and turnaround manuevers. Also the Kaos is not a "rudder neutral" plane, and requires a good bit of mixing. Since the plane must now be kept at about 150 meters throughout the entire pattern, MUCH more rudder is needed to maintain proper track. While if you drifted slightly one a center manuever in the old days you may get away with it, (because you could turn around any way you wished) today your turnaround is scored and if you have to do something drastic to get the plane back on track at the desired distance, you're dead meat.
Also the 2 meter planes just fly better period. They track better, they are smoother, the reynolds numbers work better, let's face a cold hard fact: size matters. Today there is no restriction on power, so even though a plane may only be 2 meters and 11 lbs, they can get HUGE within those parameters. They are sleek, curvy, and matched so that they are neutral and require very little mixing.
Lastly, the designs are just plain better. They are more refined. Wouldn't you agree that an F-22 flies much better than a P-40? It's called progress, like it or not. EVen in the 60 sized range, the Widebody 60 for instance is a VERY refined airframe, taking the best of all worlds and combining them into a solid performing package. The drawback is that you need more power, but it's worth it. There are many design advantages of a current plane, but ONE that jumps right out is a somewhat curved fuselage. Would you not agree that a round fuselage works MUCH better in a crosswing than a freakin square box? That airfolied tail surfaces produce a much smoother track than flat boards? That a smooth contoured nose penetrates much better than a square block of wood with a big engine sticking out in the airstream? I could go on for hours here....
I'd make sure I flew both a Kaos and any modern 2 meter design before I became a Kaos cultist, repeating the same mantra as so many before you have repeated for damn near 40 years: "A Kaos is a great flying plane, a kaos is a great flying plane, a kaos is a great flying plane, Ohhhmmmm ohhmmmmm.....". News flash: It's old, the 60s are over.
Now some people love the old style of pattern, me included. That's why the SPA exists. But if I flew it, it damn sure wouldn't be with a Kaos. It flies like a very old sport plane, there's no other way to describe it. You either get it or you don't. You've either outgrown it or you haven't. You can either feel the differences and the drawbacks or you can't. There's NO comprarison between a Kaos and a modern 2 meter plane. It's like the difference between your first trainer and a BVM Bandit. It's not even in the same ball park.
And no, I don't like it because I don't like it, Sam I am. I don't like it in a house, I don't like it with a mouse, and I don't like green eggs and ham....or Kaos's.....Sam I am.
I hope that answered your question somewhat, because if it didn't tehre's simply no other way to explain it. Just fly a Kaos, then fly a ZN Supreme, and you tell ME what the differences are.
-Mike