Wayne thats cheating to me!

Nah just kidding. When rolling for me using rudder is important, I know Uby that rolling circles can be done without rudder yes, but the plane jerks back on forth around the axis. A proper crowd attention grabbing rolling cirle is on the axis all the time not the plane swaying around.

You said it worked for rolling harrier circles on the simulator. My suggestion is try it in real life and see if the plane can keep on its axis and not jerk around