Thats exactly what I mean geoharry. I go into them a couple of ways. Easiest is to pull straight vertical, throttle back while hitting the high rate and flaperon switches. Just as the plane begins to slow to a stop (or from a hover), I apply full down elevator, and bang the throttle. That sets the plane in motion, and will pull fuse-length loops. I can get it to go from hover to waterfall to hover, on a pretty consistent basis. Sometimes I will mess with the throttle during the rotations, to see if I can get them to remain at the same altitude, or descend slowly, like a true waterfall in a river. You do have to work the rudder and ailerons after about the 3rd or 4th rotation to keep it straight, and it will walk along with the wind. If you let the wing flop over to one side, and counter with opposite aileron and same direction rudder, you can get a nice inverted flat spin.

Another really neat maneuver I've been doin lately is to pull up to vertical, and as the plane slows almost to stall, take the sticks to the outside corners, and apply full throttle. The plane will tumble to the outside vertically, and then spin around the fuse, nose high, tail down, at about a 60 degree angle. You can either climb, hold altitude, or descend at a controlled rate by working the throttle rudder and ailerons. Looks reallllly cool.

Steve