from what i have read on these forumns..the PRESERVER from raidentech.com..is a much better flyer/deal..its the same type plane..except for turning it uses 2 motors..much simplier..and evidently it doesnt need alot of tweaking to fly good right out of the box..comes with everything you need to fly for $25...the battery recharges in 3-5 minutes and some are reporting 10 minute flights..others have upgraded to a 300mah 1 cell lipo and are getting 20+ minute flights..its been reported that is pretty much crash proof..becuase its sooo light..weighin in around 45 grmas..i just prdered 1 ..to toy around with...should be here friday//when i fly it..ill give a report..