Inverted flight no input needed... Usually in my big planes I have to hold some down elevator to keep the plane from sinking.. so it looks like the consensus is the models are tail heavy at the current CG. They are in the middle of the recommended range, but that does not mean much. One man's balance is another's tail heavy!!

I have looked all over for "real" CG locations here and elsewhere.. no one seems to have any good numbers for either of these planes. The manufacturers are useless, they just say balance on tube or give a range. Since neither of these planes are out there in large masses or have fallen out of popularity... I guess I will experiment with each by shifting some weight forward and see what happens.

I have usually had great luck balancing by gut feel and/or using MAC. In this case neither worked!
Thanks for all the input guys! I'll let you know what the results are in a few days..

DP