no arguments and i'll try to explain better. The same rules don't apply to a soft loose surface as they do to a hard high traction surface. Throw some banked curves in also and it is impossible to write a complete guide line to off road car handling.

I have'nt read through the latest version of that site, but i think it says in there that it doesn't apply to all conditions.

if i get some time later i'll go through it a bit more and try to explain it a bit better.

[8D]