Hi DK; History of me: 60 years of flying; 5000+ hrs, some 60 makes & models flown from homebuilts to Lockheed 10. Former FBO, CFI, floor sweeper, john -cleaner and whatever is needed in a dealership & FBO!! Your problem is trying to lump everything under "P-factor"!! P-factor is P-factor; gyroscopic precession is just that; swirl effect is swirl effect. Don't try to lump all under the one heading. I grew up in the '30s, and all engines in general use were relatively low HP and didn't develop the torque of an R-2800! I was taught ALL of the forces, and that the real problem is when they gang up on you!! And that is what they do every time you push that throttle ahead! On the ground, and considering taildraggers only, (tri gears don't sit at high aoa until you lift off. In a taildragger, you keep the tail on the ground until you reach full throttle, and then when you lift the tail, p-factor disappears until you lift off to climb. By the same token, if there is no P-factor, there is no precession, as forces on the prop disc are equal. Again, increase the AOA and P-factor comes back to produce the precession! They are all lying in wait for the unwary, so think of how they all interact and act accordingly!! Lee Robinson; W. Palm Beach, FL.