dribbe

Hi,
Your comments are noted. We do our best to acheive the very goals you mention. In general, any user accessible gearbox that is high performance and lightweight will require some care... regardless of the mfg (I would give the same advise regarding any of them!).

Best Regards,
David

furyflyer01

In response to Jason Merkle..........I was using the pinion that came w/ the kit....and then the one that came w/ the motor. I had NO problems w/ the motor backing away from the spur by loosening........it just plain old stripped (bent the teeth over) when I did a 3 second, full throttle waterfall. I feel the spur is a little soft! I was only hovering when the second, (heavier duty looking) pinion spun out! (Ruined the spur again as well) The motor shaft is fine, and I didn't modify or improperly fit the pinion on either time! Just simply not enough press fit.

My point is only that I felt the stock GB is a little weak, the motor can even wobble when properly installed due to the plastic giving. (Not so w/ the HiMax, it's very much locked in! And stays MUCH cooler, due to the Heat Sink. ((That's a good thing, right?!)) The pinion also has a setscrew so it's not gonna' move! Your own instructions say 21 amps is OK for the PK 400 4200Kw w/ a Heat Sink. Well, no Heat Sink is available that I've seen.) See, I fly Miniature Fury's as well, their gears are VERY strong (different plastic), but not cheap ($ wise) So, I feel that a better stock GB should be available, or someone who is very serious about flying high power electric should upgrade. The kit is very well made and for the price.........can't be beat!

You guys really make great stuff and I will continue to purchase as long as that stays the same. By the way, I am no greenie to RC, been flying since 1977. This stuff sure has come a LONG way, especially electric planes !!!!!!!, servos, helis, raios, etc. ..........you pretty much name it!

I appreciate you guys being honest w/ your posts and I'm NOT the least bit upset, or need to relax. I am, that's why I fly. When yours fails, give the HiMax a shot, you'll like it! (now if they'd make their spur out of delrin!?)

Regards,

Scott

Jason W M

My Feedback: (6)

I happen to have a Fury Ion myself and watched a guy strip his Ion gears the first time he spooled his heli up. It goes much further than gear material Im afraid, because the same guy took out the replacement gear too - this time in 4 flights (The prior flights were quite "noisy" due to the improper gear mesh). Havent seen many other guys strip Ion gears though - guess they mesh them properly

As David said, fellow modelers are always free to run what they like. I am well aware of the differences between the stock gearbox and the Himaxx unit. My point is not which gearbox is better or worse - the point is that the stock gearbox works and continues to work for a large number of people, myself included - yes, even during 3+ second waterfalls, full throttle knife edge spins, blenders and more. Again, your mileage may vary, but it not neccessary nor a requirement in every case to spend the additional funds for a new gearbox to enjoy your MF.

We are glad to hear you enjoy your MF, and dont mind at all that you choose to run a different gearbox.

As a note for those installing the included pinion on your Park 400 motors - it should take a fair amount of force to press fit the pinion properly. In my case I used a vise to slowly press the pinion to the shaft, ensuring the pinion was straight with the shaft. You may also use Loctite 609 (aka - "Green" Loctite) for added security.

Best regards,

Jason

dribbe

Scott,

The gear supplied with the MF should be a VERY snug (press) fit on your PK400 motor (That gear is longer than most 10 tooth 0.4 module gears for more surface area, clamping force, and gear mesh area). If this is not the case, something is not right. Have you contacted Horizon's product support to see if they can help you with your issues. We have not yet encountered (in testing or QA or returns) a gear that is loose, or a shaft that is undersized.... but it is possible that a part could be out of spec.
If you contact Support, I expect they can help you. They may want you to return some or your parts, so we can look for a problem.

You should not encounter any movement of the pinion on the motor shaft if it is installed correctly. Removing and reinstalling the gear does have a loosening effect.

Like Jason, I have flown the heck out of many samples of this gearbox, and it is very reliable. We have a LOT of time on them.

Have Fun,
David

furyflyer01

As I said.......I installed the gear w/ a vise, even used Loctite! It still came loose (both of 'em!) Obviously not enough press fit, and it was pretty snug both times I put them on. Maybe a tolerance issue? Don't know, never mic'd either.

I've never seen anyone strip out the gears on a Fury, I do screaming pirohettes and such, stop on a dime, (you can hear the whine) but, it never stripped. It's kinda hard to not set the mesh correctly on a Fury. It's also kinda hard to set the mesh wrong on the MF gearbox, it's not rocket science! I feel the HiMax is a way better unit, hence the additional cost.

By the way, this post was NEVER meant to get anyone's panties in a bunch! Just a free FYI to anyone looking for something better.

Regards,

Scott

fcawth

I just knocked a tooth off of the spur gear in the first 2 minutes of running while bench testing my stock gearbox. I set the mesh per the instructions and there was a tiny amount of play, but not much. I think it happened during startup. I have a CC Phoenix 25 with the soft start turned off. I use the same settings in my foamy with the himax gearbox but it has a smaller motor. The himax gearbox definately has a much narrower spur gear, so I didn't want to use it with the park 400. I will re-check the braking function, but I believe that it is turned off... Does anyone have a recommended Phoenix 25 setup for the standard MF setup?? I understand that this setup was used on some of the early prototypes??


The other thing that may have contributed is that the stick was mounted in a vice, so there was likely more torque transmitted to the gears during startup than there would be on the plane. The gearbox was running very smoothly and quietly, but I suspect that it would be louder on the plane. I used some of the Ceramic Grease from Tamiya that others here have recommended, and it seemed to quiet it down even more.

I will be trying to locate some replacement spur gears, so hopefully this won't hold things up too much..

FC

Jason W M

My Feedback: (6)

FC -

Youll definitely want to turn the brake OFF whenever youre using a gearbox. This is likely the number one reason that people strip gearboxes on the very first bench test.

Im flying the MF with a Castle Creations Phoenix 25 ESC, Park 400 motor, stock gearbox, stock prop and Thunder Power 2100-3S packs. The settings used for my ESC are:

Cut off voltage - 9.0V
Current limiting - Standard
Brake type - Brake Disabled (helicopters)
Throttle type - Auto Calibrating
Electronic timing advance - Standard advance timing
Cutoff type - Soft cutoff
Soft start - Soft start (VERY soft start is OK here too if you tend to throttle off completely often)

I have dozens of flights on my MF using the same spur gear with no troubles. Most flights are pretty agressive 3D with power on blenders, flat spins, knife edge spins and plenty of hovering to blast off verticals. I use a small amount of Prather Cable Grease on my gears to keep them quiet and lubricated. You can the Prather Grease here:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/D...&OverallCatID=

If you still need replacement parts for your gearbox, they can be found here:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Search/D...&OverallCatID=

EFLM221 is the complete gearbox with housing, bearings, shaft and spur gear. EFLM222 is the shaft and spur gear. Both are in stock so you should be in the air very soon! Dont forget to check the gear mesh with your replacement spur gear again - I use "feel" and go for a very small amount of play in the gears checked at mulitple points on the spur gear to ensure proper mesh.

Good luck!

Jason Merkle
E-flite Product Manager
Horizon Hobby
http://www.horizonhobby.com

fcawth

Thanks for the quick reply. I was having startup chatter with the Himax 2015 in my foamy and I needed to switch off soft start to minimize it. I will try turning it on and see if the e-flite setup starts smoother. I will also double check that my braking is off. I just ordered a few spur gears and props, so hopefully I will get this thing in the air soon.

IMHO, a big advantage of the himax gearbox is the heat sink. A disadvantage is that you can't adjust the gear spacing easily and the gears are thin. I hover my foamy around all over the place, and I often fly for over 10 minutes without really "flying" the plane (sometimes it is dark and I fly in some spotlights in my yard or I am "flying" in my garage). The old GWS conversion gearbox that I used to use would mask the airflow over the motor in this situation and it would get very hot after a full 10 minutes of hovering. Once I put the himax gearbox on, things cooled down quite nicely, since there is the integrated heatsink and the motor is more exposed to the airflow from the prop. The E-Flite gearbox has this "masking" problem since it is designed for a larger diameter motor, but I am noping that adding a heat sink (i.e. the MPI one) will still keep it cool. Perhaps some baffles in the cowl to direct airflow over the motor would help too??

The mini funtana seems put together well, and it is great that many things are done at the factory like hinge slotting, z bends in the pushrods, control horn slots, blind nuts installed for LG, trimming the canopy (I hate doing this), etc..

Thanks again,
Fred

Shadrack

Make sure you guys using CC speed controls update your firmware. There is now an auto lipo detect which beeps to indicate the amount of cells. Got to love the cc usb programming cable. Made life a lot easier.

fcawth

I just got some new spur gears (actually I got an extra gearbox also since it comes with the spur gear and is only $4 more than the spur gear alone), and I reprogrammed my Phoenix 25 with the newest firmware. I also set the speed controller up with soft start on, and it starts much more gently. I haven't tried it on the himax on my foamy yet, but it looks like some startup issues were fixed with himax motors since I last upgraded my firmware. So, I attribtue the broken gear to a fast startup issue. That e-flite prop does have more mass than the GWS 12x6 I was using on the foamy..

Another thing that I notice is that there is a bit of wobble in the spur gear. It looks like it is slightly deformed when the brass hex press-fit coupler mates to the plastic gear. I cleaned up the hole in the gear with a hobby knife, and it seemed to help a bit. My original spur gear was actually much worse and I haven't checked my other gears to see if they are better, but I suspect that there is some variability here. If you just look at it from the side and spin it around, you can see what I am talking about. Then push it off the brass coupler but keep it on the shaft and it doesn't wobble as much... I am sure it is hard to mold that socket in there consistently. I wonder if this variability is the cause of some of the gearbox problems??


Fred

Jason W M

My Feedback: (6)

Good to hear you received your replacement gears/gearbox Fred - hope youre up and flying soon!

Yes, its always a good idea to use soft start with a gearbox. Fast start ups with large props typically puts a significant load on the gears which could result in stripped teeth or accelerated wear.

It can be difficult to mold the socket and press on the brass hex consistently but we hope to continue improving these fits as time goes on. In the mean time, some gear wobble is OK - just be sure to check your mesh at multiple points on the spur gear to find the best overall position for the motor/pinion placement. Once set, its a good idea to test run the motor and gearbox for a few minutes without the prop (make sure the motor and ESC dont get too hot when bench testing) and check the mesh again. If you got it right the first time, the gearbox should still be smooth. If you find the mesh is not where it should be, adjust the motor position and try again.

After a few attempts, you should have the feel for proper mesh in no time. Once you have the gearbox set with the prop mesh it will run consistently and reliably for a very long time (less any sublte contacts with the ground of course...). I have dozens and dozens of flights on my MF gearbox and even flew a few more aggressive 3D flights with it this weekend where in continues to perform perfectly.

Good luck!

Jason

TheEdge

My Feedback: (788)

Please forgive me if I am asking something that has already been asked and covered some where else.
I have the new mini Funtana and I also have a Hacker B20 lying around with ESC.
What I want to do is use this for my Funtana if it is going to be enough power. I have already gone and ordered the mount from Top Creations as I could use this anyway somewhere down the line if this motor isn't going to be suitable.
I wish to have the 3D capability that the manual states will be achieved with thier recommended E-Flite 4200 set up for top performance. I am just getting on the learning curve with these electric set up's and any help would be appreciated.
Thanks, Bob

brownpaul

Here's a different twist; with about 3 minutes on the first flight of my MF my park 400 motor shaft sheared off at the end of the motor. I took great pains to make sure everything was set up perfectly. DId that happen to anyone else?

thedak

My Feedback: (21)

Got 41 flights on my gearbox. Word to you mother.

Fred Dings II

My Feedback: (2)

Hello, Dribbe
I have a mini Funtana on back order with Horizon and after reading all the complaints about the supplied gear box, I am going to call and cancel the Funtana unless you or Jason Merkle can advise a direct drive motor. How about an O.S. .15 glow?

The reason I like the Funtana is because it looks like an airplane whereas a lot of
electrics do not have an appearance as pleasing. I am a happy customer of Horizon Hobby and want it to stay that way.

Regards, Fred L. Dings, II AMA 108030 IMAA 14913 [email protected]

thedak

My Feedback: (21)

Fred are you serious. I don't think threatening Horizon that you are going to cancel your order is going to get you help. I have 70+ flights on the stock gearbox. I works fine. How about you just buy the plane and try it yourself.

Fred Dings II

My Feedback: (2)

I am certainly am not threatening Horizon, but I will not deal with a gearbox that has so many complaints.
I am going to cancel my order first thing on Wed.

I'm surprised that you thought I was threating Horizon; if you had said I was a coward that might have been appropriate.

Thanks for your input, I'm happy that you have had a pleasant experience, so many I've heard from haven't.

Guess I'm just a gas and go flier. I haven't flown electric yet, but I've been flying for 27 years, pattern and sport. Regards, FRED

TheEdge

My Feedback: (788)

I got mine from Chief who has them in stock

Fred Dings II

My Feedback: (2)

In the RC Groups.com a couple of fliers have come up with a satisfactory direct drive motor and mount. The motor is the AXI 2808-24 and two methods of mounting the motor is also discussed in case anyone here thinks they might prefer a direct drive motor. The place to look is in the "Mini Funtana Quick Build" discussion, Part 3, page 9, post 435. They have over 1200 discussions regarding the Mini Funtana building and powering. Naturally I didn't find this out until I had canceled my Funtana back order with Horizon.
Fortunately, I was told that Chief Aircraft has them in stock. That's true, I ordered one, and it's on its way.

Regards, FRED

Fred Dings II

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks, Edge, I appreciate your input. I ordered one and they said they will ship today. That was Wed. 3/9. Notice my post regarding a direct drive motor.

Regards, FRED

hov-r-nut

My Feedback: (5)

here is a link to the thread about the mount I am producing

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/moun...2699407/tm.htm

here are some pics

curtster

My Feedback: (4)

Well, I thought I had the problems with the stock MF gearbox beat, but there I was, on flight #7, and the spur gear self-destructed. And I'm not a hardcore 3D guy either! IMHO Horizon Hobby can brag all they want about the "extensive testing" they did while developing the gearbox, but if so many people are having problems with them, they need to fess up and admit that the problem is their product, not the people using their product. I only wish I had read these posts BEFORE I had purchased their recommended setup. Oh well. Fool me once...
Curtster

Jason W M

My Feedback: (6)

If "so many people" are having problems with the gearbox, then might one expect our phone to be ringing off the hook with people complaining of the same problems? This is simply not the case - we've asked our product support team a number of times. Remember, the posts here represent only a small portion of the Mini Funtana owners out there. Just because some people have a problem with a product here does NOT mean the entire market is having the exact same problems. Again, if nearly every gearbox out there failed, we would be the first to know and it would be in our best interest to correct the problem immediately. But the fact is simple - if you set the gearbox up properly, it performs just as it should, realiably and consistently. This has not only been our experience here, but the experience of a number of Team JR pilots, hobby shop owners, employees and even people I used to fly with in my electric club back in Las Vegas and have met or talked to from a variety of fields around the country.

What would we gain from providing a gearbox in the kit that simply did not work? Im sure everyone has their theories, but again the fact is simple. We spent a lot of time developing a gearbox that would work and work well when compared to other gearboxes that were already available in the market for models like this. This was to aid the consumer so they did not have to search high and low for alternative motor mount and power system options. While I certainly think its great that other options now exist for those who may not prefer or be able to properly utilize the gearbox, that does not mean that the solution we provide wont work for those who elect to use it. As many would agree, people who experience problems are sometimes quick to blame the product before anything else when the problem could be as simple as improper set up or use.

I certainly dont want to argue the merits of inrunner or outrunner, gearbox or not - that is an arguement that no one can "win" (much like 2 stroke vs 4 stroke, OS vs YS, etc). We all have our preferences and recommendations based on experience, or even inexperience. But what I will argue is that those who choose to use the included gearbox, and set it up properly, will always be rewarded with a system that works. If your system does not work (especially after a number of attempts), it is not always the fault of the gearbox itself, but could simply be related to the set up of the gearbox.

For those interested in learning more about proper gearbox and gear mesh set ups, you are welcome to talk with any members of the E-flite team in person at a number of upcoming trade shows and events. I will make it a point to keep a motor and gearbox in hand that has been meshed properly (and flown) for reference. For those who will be attending the Toeldo show, SEFF or RCX, I look forward to meeting you there and answering any questions you may have regarding the gearbox or any of our other E-flite products.

I wish everyone luck, and regardless of your power system choice, I do hope you enjoy the Mini Funtana!

Jason Merkle
E-flite Product Manager
Horizon Hobby
http://www.horizonhobby.com

Fred Dings II

My Feedback: (2)

Jason, you wrote a very logical letter and the only logical conclusion to draw from it is that some of us don't have the ability to set up a gearbox properly. I heartily agree that this might be the case. I know you have sold thousands of these mini-funtanas. Over the years I have seen flyers at the field who had no mechanical ability at all. I am one of the people who has never set up a gear box and based on what I have read, I fear I would be one of the people who couldn't do it properly, so just in case, I am going to direct drive. When I go to the flying field I don't want to mess with my equipment, I want to fly.

I got my mini-funtana from Chief Aircraft yesterday, and it is a study in craftsmanship. It has a very pleasing appearance and not a wrinkle anywhere. I have also seen my first gear box. I find it hard to believe that for the price you would even include a gearbox. I haven't had a chance to read the instructions yet, but I'm sure they will indicate that a "soft start" and "brake off" should be considered options with a gearbox.
I have been very happy with you guys at Horizon who just returned a new Saito 1.00 I had sent back and it works perfectly now. Best wishes to you and Horizon. Sorry about the gearbox.
Regards, FRED

curtster

My Feedback: (4)

It is amazing to me how far people will go to defend a product, even when it has been demonstrated to be of poor quality. I refer, of course, to the MF gearbox. I can only believe that since my LHS CANNOT GET THE REPLACEMENT GEAR (they tell me that it has been backordered), Horizon must be selling alot of them. Selling alot--->many are broken--->poor quality product. My LHS is usually very good at getting stuff (Marty's Hobbies in Thousand Oaks, CA), and when they say they can't get something, I'll take their word on it. Oh well, I guess I'll just fly some of my other planes until the part gets in (or just purchase the Himax gearbox and be done with it).