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Sport Flying The 3dhs Extra 300 Shp

Old 04-11-2008, 11:19 AM
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Doc Austin
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Default Sport Flying The 3dhs Extra 300 Shp




THE MYSTERY AVIATION DEVELOPMENT TEAM

AND

DR. WHO VIDEO PRODUCTIONS

With

ADChobbystore

Presents

SPORT FLYING THE 3D HOBBY SHOP EXTRA 300 SHP



Airframe:
Wingspan: 47.25 inches
Length: 44 inches
Wing Area: 464 square inches
Weight: 37-41 ounces

Motor:
Motrolfly DM2815-1100 Brushless Outrunner Motor
1100 Kv
Weight: 120g
38 amps max sustained current
5mm diameter threaded shaft

Batteries
Thunder Power 3s 2200-3300 Extreme Series V2 (or 4s 2200 if you are crazy)

Available from: http://www.adchobbystore.com/ and other fine 3D Hobby Shop dealers



WHY THE EXTRA SHP FOR SPORT FLYING?


The 3D Hobby Shop Extra SHP is a 3D icon. Many guys, including myself, got started in 3D with this plane, and it's become the go-to 3D plane of the industry in a very short time. The SHP is extremely agile yet forgiving. It's very easy to put together and it's easy to work on. It's solid and reliable, and it's a tough little bird on top of it. These are all essential qualities for sport flying, so it only seems natural to set one up that way and see what it's got.


Since we are on the general electric discussion forum, some of you may not be familiar with 3D Hobby Shop, but you will be. The airplanes are too good not to make their way into the sport market, but so far 3D Hobby Shop has only pursued the 3D market, and has catered exclusively to it's rabid following of 3DHS junkies.

Like all of 3D Hobby Shop's planes, the Extra SHP is built and finished extremely well. The construction is light where strength isn't needed, and robust where it is. 3D Hobby Shop has also recently upgraded it's hardware package and all of it is absolute top shelf stuff (though the old hardware was still really good too). The fit and finish of all the parts is excellent, if not an industry standard.


Also worthy of note is that 3D Hobby Shop's technical support and customer service departments are absolutely second to none in the industry. This is not just my experience. Read any of the 3D Hobby Shop threads on this or any other forum, and they are choked full of a legion of faithful customers who will fly nothing else. Of course, as with any mass produced item, 3D Hobby Shop very occasionally gets one with a minor problem or shipping damage, but 3D Hobby Shop is painfully keen to make these right as soon as possible.........like maybe yesterday. Technical support often goes way past above and beyond, and if you have a set up issue or even a question about flying technique, the best and most friendly help in the industry is a phone call, email, or forum private message away.

Other manufacturers please take note.


New Review Formatting
This report will be formatted a little differently from our previous projects. This time, because the flying is so important, we will get to that first. After that we can delve into the specifics of setup and equipment.

FLYING


The first Extra SHP that we set up for sport use belongs to long time friend, flying buddy and Mystery Aviation Development Team pilot Don Wilson. The day before the following video I flew a 5 minute test hop, and Don finished the day out with it. I took it home, made a few changes (mostly tidying up the wiring and checking everything), and the next day we made this video;


We knew the Extra SHP would respond well to a setup more suitable for sport flying, but were surprised at just how beautifully the plane performed in it's new role. In one way it was a completely different airplane, but in another, the SHP kept all of her good qualities, and became even more smooth and docile to fly.

Even with a milder sport set up the Extra will still loop, roll, spin, knife edge, and will perform any other conventional aerobatic maneuver. She will even do a loose blender, which sort of surprised me. She won't 3D like this, but that's not what we are after here. What we are going after here is a plane that you can take out on Sunday and just fly it. We wanted the Extra Sport to be tame enough that inexperienced pilots could confidently learn aerobatics on her, but at the same time we wanted the Extra Sport to be capable of wild enough aerobatics to keep the experienced pilots entertained. That's a pretty huge window for a plane to fill up, but the Extra does it better than any plane I've ever seen. On top of that, a setup change is all that's required to turn the Extra into a 3D trainer, and then a wilder setup turns the Extra into a 3D monster. Smaller steps in setup will give you everything in between, and the plane responds beautifully to this.


This is an extremely diverse and adaptable airframe. It is capable of world class 3D performance, but tuned down a novice can use it to hone his aerobatic skills and learn new maneuvers. I am almost convinced that with a little further detuning the Extra SHP would be a suitable basic trainer, and it has actually been done.

With a 3 cell setup on the Motrolfly 2815-1100, takeoff roll at half throttle was about 20 feet. If you punch it the thing jumps right up in about five feet. Like most taildraggers, the Extra will require a little right rudder to keep her tracking straight down the runway, but if you just hammer it the plane takes off in such a short space that it doesn't really matter. You can do a nice, long, smooth takeoff if that's what you like, and the Extra is really good at it. I'm just too impatient for that and want to get in the air.


In the air the Extra Sport is very precise. It goes where you point it, stays where you point it, and doesn't do anything you don't tell it to do. It is very much like a good pattern ship in this respect. It is very solid and reassuring to fly because you are flying the plane instead of it flying you. The Extra tracks so well that it is easy to fly. You aren't fighting it the whole time to make it go where you want it to go. You simply point it where you want it to go and it goes there until you tell it to do something else. This means you can just relax between maneuvers instead of constantly working and wearing yourself out. Even in 3D trim the Extra is so solid and tracks so well that the flights seem entirely too short. With some other planes, I am slap worn out after a hard flight. With the Extra, it's not unusual for me to fly four intense flights in a row, right on the deck, pausing only long enough to change out the battery, then burn all my packs up and be wishing I had more. And, that's in 3D trim. In sport trim it's even easier to fly.

Below is the first flight of my own Extra Sport and the Motrolfly 2815-1100 motor. I went right into my routine and so confortable so instantly that I forgot to even trim the plane. She was handling so beautifully that I just flew her. Halfway through I rememberd to trim her, but she didn't take any. This has ahppened exactly twice in 35 years of R/C modelling. the other time was my first extra SHP!


So, you would think that the Extra's tracking and agility would be enough, but those aren't even her strongest points. What really sets the Extra apart is her incredibly sublime stability, especially at slow speeds. You can drag the Extra around at dog slow speeds, right on the very edge of falling out of the air, but it will never, ever snap out on you. As long as you keep it flying the Extra won't even go off track. In the video you will see that I fly the Extra around holding full up elevator, and she doesn't snap out, roll off or do anything vicious. If you do stall her, just add a little power or put the nose down a bit and she will start flying again right away.

Even in a hard turn at slow speed the Extra will resolutely refuse to surprise the pilot. Oh, sure, you can stall the plane like that, but it's not going to violently spin itself into the ground with no warning like some planes will do. It's not even going to spin and it certainly isn't going to snap out on you. It's just going to stall, and by the time you have soloed you'de better already know how to handle that anyway.


At the other end of the flight envelope the Extra goes fast very well. It's not flighty or darty and it holds it's heading so well I think we could pylon race the things against each other and it would be a hoot.

The Extra spins and snaps well, which is sort of surprising because inherent stability usually makes this impossible. In a snap you are putting the plane in an extremely unstable position, and stable planes just won't let you do that to them. The Extra, however, doesn't seem to mind, but as soon as you let off the sticks she goes right back to being an obedient, submissive puppy dog. When you snap or spin the Extra, just let go of the sticks when you're done and she will stop right now. This way you can exit these maneuvers exactly where you want to, then fly out and relax until you are ready for the next maneuver.

And that's the point when you are learning aerobatics. Put the plane where you want it to go. Anything else is just slop, like falling off a bicycle and then saying "I meant to do that." When you have a plane that goes exactly where you put it, that just makes learning to put it where you want it that much easier. The Extra's ability to do this makes it an incredible aerobatic trainer.


For the experienced sport pilot, the Extra's stability allows him to push it harder than ever before without the fear that the plane is going to bite him. It doesn't take very long at all to get a good feel for what the airplane is capable of, and that instills a lot of confidence. When you have that much confidence in a plane and are that comfortable flying it, you can pull off the most outrageous antics imaginable. This is the kind of plane that your skills grow with, even if you don't consciously practice and just fly instead.

For 3D? The Extra SHP was my 3D trainer. First I sport flew it with a mild 3D setup. As I learned more 3D maneuvers those crept into my sport routine. Eventually I needed a more wild setup to do the advanced maneuvers until eventually I had dialed in a full 3D setup and was flying 3D full time. Now I'm back to sport flying a second Extra, just for grins.


As you can see, the Extra SHP is a plane you can learn aerobatics with and progress right through to the most difficult 3D maneuvers. The Extra really can be almost anything you want it to be. All you have to do is tinker with the setup and get it the way you like it.

We tested the Extra with both Thunder Power Extreme Series V2 3S 2200 and 3200 lipo packs, and surprisingly I couldn't tell a difference in how the plane flew. The additional weight didn't faze it even a little bit. those last few grams aren't nearly as important to save on a sport plane as they are in 3D, so I'de say the best route is to go for the larger capacity and enjoy longer flights.

In summary, I could have just said that the Extra is so easy to fly that the average pilot will look like a hero in no time flat.



THE ARF

Like all our other 3DHS planes, the Extra SHP came triple boxed, on time, and with no damage. Also like with our other 3DHS planes, all the necessary hardware was included. Outside of the power and radio system, you won't spend a dime finishing this baby up. I really love the guys at my LHS, but it was nice for a change to open the box and finish the entire project without having to make a mad run down there for parts. You're always missing something...... a screw, a servo extension, Velcro, a wire tie or even a wheel collar, but not when you get the plane and power system combo with servos. Everything I need except for the transmitter and receiver comes in the brown truck.

For all our 3DHS projects, we now use all the hardware and follow the directions exactly to the letter with absolutely zero deviation. In the past I have been persnickety about things like control horns, push rod keepers, and such, but any time I have had the bright idea use something different than comes in the box, it has turned out to be a mistake. Eventually I realized the guys in Fredricksburg know exactly what they are doing, and we now use 3D Hobby Shop hardware exclusively, even when we test another brand of plane.

Of course, for the Extra SHP Sport project, while all the hardware, servo, and power system components will be the same as we use for 3D flying, we will be using a different control set up, but more on that later.

Like with all our 3DHS projects, the covering was well done.....exceptionally well done. My personal SHP is done up in the now classic yellow and black bumble bee scheme, and boy is it loud. I like this scheme because, first, I like yellow, and most importantly, it is very easy to see and keep orientation of. There is never any doubt which way this baby is headed. I hope 3DHS makes the yellow in 55" some day, because I want one. Of course, the blue and white scheme is nice too, but us old blind guys really need the yellow.

We have lost track of how many 3DHS projects we have put together and flown. This is complicated by the fact that we have recently set up a whole new batch of them for guys in my club who have discovered what a step up is to be flying these planes. Personally I own three Asperas, two Extra SHPs, two Yaks, a Velox (with another on order) and am on my second Katana. I think at this point I'm qualified to say something about the level of quality in these kits. These are the finest mass produced items I have yet seen. They come beautifully turned out and we've never had a quality issue of any kind. We have never had to send anything back and we've never had to fix something that wasn't done right. All we do is assemble them by the book, and fly them really, really hard. They work just like they are supposed to.....if not better.

Other manufacturers please take note.

EQUIPMENT

Motor
For the Extra Sport project we went with something a little different. 3D Hobby Shop and it's crew of air show pilots have lately been creating quite a stir with their new Motrolfly powered planes. They have been reporting excellent reliability, smooth running, and absurd power levels, so we figured this would be worth looking into. We had previously tried a Motrolfly motor on Dr. Who's 3D Hobby Shop 55" Katana and we were thrilled with the way it performed. While I like to stay with what I know works, our initial experience with Motrolfly products was encouraging enough that I wanted to take the project down this road. The Motrolfly motors are very competitively priced and as much money as we've been spending on projects lately I didn't find this to be especially offensive. Motrolfly USA is an American owned company and the Motrolfly motors are designed in the USA and marketed worldwide. As a red blooded American and proud infidel, I felt this was definitely the right direction to take the project.

Something worth noting about the Motrolfly is that I am used to flying with 4s power, and I hardly noticed any difference between that and the Motrolfly on 3 cells. With this plane/motor combo, I don't think you need 4S power. 3s seems to be just right for sport flying. The motor ran smooth and cool, and it makes a really neat sound when you power through a snap roll. The Motrolfly has it's own sound, much like the Extreme Flight motors do, and I like them about the same, though they are very different. The Extreme Flight motors sound sophisicated, like a turbine, while the Motrolfly is throatier, sort of like a big V8, only quiet.


There are several areas where Motrolfly has improved performance. I talked with Scott Corriveau, Motrolfly's head design consultant, about the motors and he revealed a few of their tweeks, but I am sworn to silence. About all I'm allowed to say is that Motrolfly's quality control is very painstaking. There are a few other things in the motor that improve performance and reliability, but again, I am sworn to secrecy. Since I am an old slot car guy and used to build my own motors, a lot of the things we talked about made sense to me. What goes into the Motrolfly motors is mostly pure common sense, with a little innovative engineering thrown in.

We chose to go with the Motrolfly 2815-1100 because we were projecting 440 watts on 3s power, which is a lot of grunt. Lots of guys will be stepping up to this plane from Mini Ultra Sticks, Mini Pulses, and other similar sized planes. They will already have 3 cell 2100-2200mah packs, and those are perfect for the Extra SHP. It's always nice to be able to use some of the equipment you already have, and the Motrolfly 2815-1100 allows us to do that.

The Motrolfly motor runs very smooth, and it's a little quieter than what I'm used to. Scott says this is because the Motrolfly is better than most when it comes to converting electricity into rotating energy rather than of sonic energy. If a motor is noisy, it's wasting energy. While this does make a good bit of sense, I think he may have been yanking my chain. Of course, I started suspecting this when he told me Mortolfly uses metric ohms in the motors.

The Motrolfly yanked the Extra off the ground in a very short distance, and you'll see that in the video. Vertical was extremely good and top speed was probably bordering on too much. The Motrolfly is an extremely strong motor. On 3s it's just perfect for sport flying the Extra 300 SHP. You probably don't need quite this much power, but it's nice to have it.

I can't wait to try in on 4 cells.

We've only got a few flights on the Motrolfly 2815-1100, but they have been so good that this validates the decision to use a Motrolfly on the upcoming Extra SR project. We kind of got out of order here because the SR was going to be our first Motrolfly, but when the opportunity came to do the Extra Sport project and a Motrolfly motor was available, we jumped on it and I'm glad we did.


On the initial run of our 2815-1100, running an APC 12/6E prop, we were pulling 45 amps and putting out a whopping 438 watts. This compares very favorably, and a bit more,than what we were getting with our other motor. This motor also has a much higher KV rating that our other standby power system, so we were expecting it to unload really well once it got in the air.

ESC
As of this writing, Motrolfly doesn't have an ESC that will handle 4 cell operation without a separate BEC. They have one in the works, and we will switch over to that on our Extra Sport when it's available, but for now we will be staying with our our Extreme Flight Airboss Elite 45 ESCs.


One of the things I find most attractive about the Airboss Elite is that it can handle up to five cells without the need for a separate BEC and all the associated rat's nest of extra wiring. This keeps things extremely simple. Plug it in and it works. If you want to run three cells, four cells or even five cells, just drop them in and change your prop to keep the amp draw below 45, or less if you motor isn't rated that high.


We placed our Airboss 45 outside of the motorbox. This keeps all the wires out of the battery compartment and makes changing the battery out much easier.


Batteries
As with all of our projects, we are using Thunder Power lithium polymer packs. Personally, I started electric R/C using Thunder Power batteries and they have served me so well that I have never felt the need to try anything else. The few times I have had a minor technical problem, Thunder Power has taken really good care of me, and any time I need any advice (which is often), Thunder Power's technical department has always been happy to steer me the right way. Since I have been following their instructions, my batteries are running cooler, longer, and I don't have a single problem.

In the picture below is the Thunder Power Extreme Series V2 3S 2200 pack in the location we few it in Don Wilson's plane for the first video. Like this, the plane balances about 1/4" ahead of the wing tube, with is just about right for sport flying. We get about 6 minutes of hard 3D flying with this pack, and about 8 minutes of slightly less intense sport flying.



The Extra SHP was designed to house 3s 2100-2200 sized batteries, but since the the airplane is so light to begin with, we figured we could get away with something larger and trade a little weight off for some more run time. Below is the Extra SHP with the Thunder Power Extreme Series V2 3S 3300 pack in the most rearward position, against the wing tube. Since this battery is heavier than the smaller 2200 pack, we need to move it back to get the CG in the same place. This is conveniently where it goes. Just jam it all the way back.


With this pack we are getting a solid 10 minutes of really good power delivery. Once we flew it for 11 and came down with 10.5v in the pack, which is as low as you want to go on an 11.1v pack. I'de say most sport fliers won't lean on it as hard as I do, so 10 minutes would be a good time to shoot for.

The Thunder Power tech people tell me that LiPo's are best used within their voltage bandwidth, say 3.5 to 4.2 volts per cell. Once you establish roughly how long it takes to hit the low end of the bandwidth, it's a good idea to use a timer and cut your flights off at about that time, if not a littler sooner. Funny thing is, after you have done this a bit you seem to develop a timer in your head and you know when to land almost by instinct. However, I've spent a lot of time flying with a timer and checking my voltage after every flight, and since I've become religious about that I've got a good idea how to treat my batteries.

In all cases during the Extra Sport project, battery temperatures were only slightly above ambient, which was sort of surprising. Since we have been flying really, really hard 3D all summer I was used to seeing 120-130 degree temperatures when ambient was 90-95 degrees. During this year's early low 80s spring, the Extra Sport was coming back with the batteries at about 80-84 degrees. I was certainly not expecting the temperatures to drop so dramatically, but sport flying is so much less demanding on the power system than intense 3D that the V2 batteries are really happy loafing along at the 40-45 or so amps we are pulling. From a discharge rate standpoint, we are hardly taxing them at all.


Servos and Such
Again, going with the standard equipment, we choose the Hi Tech HS65 servos. Where we deviated from standard is that we went with the metal gears so they would hold up should we want to use them later in something like another Ballistic Aspera, or maybe even a ballistic Extra Sport. Also, this way all our servos are the same for all our 47" 3DHS planes. The HS65s drop right into, with no modification, the 47" Katana, Yak, Extra, Aspera, EBT trainer, Velox and the upcoming Extra SR.

THE SETUP

We didn't use a lot of calculus or black magic to hit the set up on this plane. We didn't do a lot of research either. It was mostly pure dumb luck to have hit it dead on to begin with, but I do have over 200 flights on my Extra SHP in 3D trim. Not knowing where to start I simply measured the low rates on my Extra SHP and used those as the high rates on the Extra Sport. I set my sport planes up to do three rolls in five seconds, and I also use this for low rates on my 3D planes.


For elevator on a sport setup I usually keep adding more until I start to lose smoothness, and then I back it off a notch.


For high rate rudder I go for all I can steal, and then eyeball the low rates.


Mechanically we used the double servo arm (with one arm cut off) that comes with the HS65 servo, We put the push rod in the second hole from the inside on the servo arm (third hole for the rudder), and on the new 3D hobby Shop phenolic control horns there is only one hole anyway, so it can't possibly get any simpler.


If you need a little more or less, use the end point controls to tailor it to your tastes. On our Extra Sport, we run the end points at 100% (minus whatever you need to keep the rudder from hitting the elevator) and since the setup was so perfect we never changed them.

In 3D you run massive exponential, but for sport flying the plane is tamed down and until recently I didn't even use any at all. With a little experimenting I have found that 30% (negative if you are using Futaba) is just enough to knock the edge off the handling without numbing the plane down. For this project we used that on both high and low rates. It's not a lot of expo and all it really does is make the plane seem to fly a little smoother. Of course, this isn't chiseled into stone or anything. If you want more or less, knock yourself out and dial it in. Get the plane exactly where you want it. Our setup is just a good starting point, but it works so well for us that you probably won't change much.

If you want to be ultra precise with your setup, these are the measurements we came up with for control throw:



[
size=4]Extra 300 Sport Setup

Ailerons High: 1 3/4"
Elevator High: 1 3/8"
Rudder High: All you can get


Ailerons Low: 1/2"
Elevator Low: 1"
Rudder Low: 3"


(throws are for each direction) CG: 3" to 3.25" behind the leading edge of the wing, measured where the wing meets the fuselage[/size]
Personally, I like 30% exponential (negative for Futaba users) on all surfaces for both high and low rates.

For setting the CG we wanted to go a little further forward than what the manual calls for when flying 3D. We ran 2200 3S packs, and we also ran a few 3300 3s packs. On the first flight I moved the battery as far forward as it would go while still being able to get the Velcro strap secured around the it and this seemed to be just fine. We also moved it all the way back against the wing tube and it didn't seem to make much difference, so I'm not really sure that it matters. My students prefer to run it toward the front because it makes the plane more stable, and I like it toward the rear because the plane snaps and spins a little better when more tail heavy. Either way, the plane is very steady, smooth and forgiving. Anymore I just jam the battery in and don't really care where it lands as long as it's on the tray and I can strap it down. Since the 3300 pack is heavier, we like to push that one all the way back against the spar, and while this comes out the most nose heavy configuration we tried, the Extra was still delightful to fly and even more stable than the others.

In short, the Extra performs through such a wide rage of CGs that it's not going to be bad no matter where you put the battery as long as it's on the tray. You just have to dial it in yourself until you are happy with it.

FINAL NAIL

There isn't much to be said about the Extra SHP's 3D abilities that hasn't been chronicled on over 500 pages of threads devoted to this plane here. It is absolutely the 3D plane of choice for many, whether it be a 3D trainer, daily 3D beater, or all out 3D monster show off plane.

It does seem a little strange the plane's 3D abilities are so good that no one ever thought to try it as a sport plane and report on it as such. The Extra SHP is so good at what it does that no one thought to try something else with it, but the plane is an extremely capable sport flier. The plane can be used for everything from basic aerobatic training all the way through the most advanced 3D maneuvers, or it can be dialed back and flown around on Sundays just for fun.

There are a lot of good sport planes out there. I'de say in all my years of sport flying that the Extra SHP Sport is probably the best flying of all of them.

So, it seems the 3D Hobby Shop Extra SHP is probably the best kept secret in the sport flying industry. Once people read this report and see the videos, I'm thinking that might be over.

[
size=4]ACKNOWLEDGMENTS[/size]


Video Shoot and Editing, flight photography

Dr. Who Video Productions

Good Deals And Great Service



3D Flying coaching and technical analysis



Mystery Aviation Development Pilots
Rob Anderson
Dennis Smith
Jay Smith
Don Wilson
Rich Wilson
Matt Conser
Ace Vavoularis
Tim Reynolds
Miles Simmons

And

The one and only Helmet Stogie



Official Sports Drink Of The Mystery Aviation Development Team



Special thanks





Motal Support
Gandalf The Wonder Poodle




Special Condolences

Our deepest sympathies go to Dennis Smith who lost his beloved Extra SHP in the making of this project.

Old 04-11-2008, 11:41 AM
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Motrolfly
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Default RE: Sport Flying The 3dhs Extra 300 Shp

dear doc

nice work very well written , like you have all the time in the world.

scott
www.motrolflyusa.com
Old 04-11-2008, 05:53 PM
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clovus
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Default RE: Sport Flying The 3dhs Extra 300 Shp

Its funny how the 3DHS planes don't seem to have such a huge following here. I don't know why, they are really heads and shoulders above everything else in quality, and the flight performance is just sublime. Keep up the reviews Doc and we might convert a few more heathens

clovus
Old 04-11-2008, 07:16 PM
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Doc Austin
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Default RE: Sport Flying The 3dhs Extra 300 Shp

I just realized that I put this on the wrong forum!
Old 04-11-2008, 08:01 PM
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Default RE: Sport Flying The 3dhs Extra 300 Shp

It's all about exposure Doc!

clovus
Old 04-11-2008, 08:38 PM
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Default RE: Sport Flying The 3dhs Extra 300 Shp


ORIGINAL: clovus

Its funny how the 3DHS planes don't seem to have such a huge following here. I don't know why, they are really heads and shoulders above everything else in quality, and the flight performance is just sublime. Keep up the reviews Doc and we might convert a few more heathens

clovus
I don't understand that as well. I bought my first, the 47" SHP, and now I'm working on the Velox. These planes fly so well and take abuse! I had never flown any plane that had no coupling in knife edge flight before. My SHP is the pride of the fleet and I can't wait to get the Velox up and going. Great job on the Sport set-up for the SHP Doc!

God Bless Y'all,

Jay
Old 04-15-2008, 08:40 AM
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Fliprob17
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Default RE: Sport Flying The 3dhs Extra 300 Shp

ORIGINAL: clovus
Its funny how the 3DHS planes don''t seem to have such a huge following here. I don''t know why, they are really heads and shoulders above everything else in quality, and the flight performance is just sublime. Keep up the reviews Doc and we might convert a few more heathens
clovus
What do you mean There are 5 dedicated addicts right here

There is no question that the quality of construction, and more importantly the flight characteristics are a step above and beyond. They quite simply make the best flying planes out there right now. The 47" class was completely smashed when the Velox Revolution came out with the built up/airfoiled tail surfaces and all the other little bells and whistles you don''t typically see in smaller ARF''s. It just raised the bar dramatically. So what do they do, 5 months later they release the Extra SR, another 47" aircraft with completely built-up/airfoiled tail surfaces. It has you eagerly anticipating what could possibly be next.

Plus, they are just good looking planes
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