JRW

Thanks Guys,

I placed and order with Edogfight.com yesterday for the plane and gear. Although PayPal confirmed the $$ transaction, I did not receive a notification from www.edogfight. Is this common? It is my first order with them.

Thanks,
Jim

Greg Covey

Jim,

Yes, that is normal. On my orders from eDogFight, I didn't get any e-mails and the order would still show up.

Try e-mailing David Hsu here at eDogFight.

Regards.

easy2fly

My Feedback: (3)

for unlimited vertical in the first half of flight, you guys should check out the m100 motor($8)a gws d gb (7$)
m 100
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/m100.html
gws eps d gb
http://www.bigskyrc.com/index.php?P=10&item=92

JRW

Hi All,

I received my T3D yesterday afternoon and in short order, nearly have it finished. This is my first electric, foam plane, and these are my observations:

1. It really is plain-ole' white foam! VBG
1.a. ... didn't get much for $75.
2. Assembly: Foam safe CA's with "activator" seem to be the best way to glue things. I found that not using the activator made for loooong drying times.
3. Be VERY careful glueing the wing together, and any type of impression will accidently induce dihedral. After gluing only the 1/2s together (positioned in the cente of the fuse) I found that I had induced some anhedral. Thus, I thought that the wings had some dihedral in them that was not written in the instructions. I broke apart the wing 1/2s and flipped them around. My recommendation would be to remove 1 aileron and glue the 1/2's together on a flat plate. Then, add some type of spar or toe as one is NOT included in the kit, then insert into fuselage and reposition the aileron.)

4. The instructions leave a lot out, but the glossy pics are nice.
5. The wings (without spar) are very flexible
6. Rudder and fin lined up nice. However, I used a thin slice of servo packging cardboard on each side of the fin to remove the gaps between it and the fuse cutout.
7. Rudder hinging is super easy.
8. Connecting and making those little pushrods takes some time.
9. I'm still waiting on my battery and ESV to arrive.
10. Servo install is super easy.
11. How do you attach the prop? The prop has hexigonal impressions on the front and back. If you tighten the aft nut and slip the prop down the shaft, it will engage the nut and "turn" the prop. However, how to you spin down the nut into the front hexigonal hole? OR, do you just use the washers and tighten the nut with Locktite?
12. I'm a little aprehencious, and looking forward to flying it.

Thanks for the responses.
Jim

JRW

One more note. Without the battery and ESV, total weight (including stickers) is 3.7 oz weighed on a digital scale.
Jim W.

JRW

Hi All. I flew the T3D this weekend and have a ton of observations. Because this is my first park flyer, I'm going to touch on a lot of points that may be better suited towards other threads, but here it goes:

Setup: GWS 5amp ESV, stock motor, stock prop, stock method of assembly (foam safe CA per instructions). GWS nano servos, GWS single conversion receiver.

Total weight 5.7 oz (Battery = Kokam 7.4 volt 2 cell 640 Mah li-po.

First flight: I had all the excitement of being 10 years old again! It is cool to have a tiny aerobatic plane in my hands. During the first flight it was about 5 mph wind, and the plane was flying tail heavy. Within a couple of minutes, the wing collapsed, resulting in a crash that cleanly broke off the nose section of the fuse in front of the wing.

Repair: I used thick foam safe CA to glue the fuse back together. I used some 0.07 carbon rod sections to "pin/spar" the wing back together. All is good!

Recommendation: definately include some type of spar as the previous posts recommended!!!!!

Subsequent flights: I've gotten to know the plane better now and it is really fun to fly. The performance is greatly determined by the state of the battery. When fully charged, it reads 8.5 volts. During the first 4 mintues, it will hover, but not pull out vertically. After about 5 minutes, a hover turns into a ritcheous torquing tailslide (be carefule)!! Rolls, rolling circules, wierd maneuvers, are all within the plane's cabailiy. Although I cannot get it to hold knife edge flight, the rudder is truly awesome in horizontal flight. You can do a yaw- 180 turn, on a dime and leave change!! It is cool to watch what it can do with the rudder. I also added a quarter (0.25 cents) to the nose, to help remove the tail heavy characteristics. Now it will hold flight without climbing, etc.

Landing: Depending on the breeze, it might just do a zero speed landing! However, in no breeze, it will quickly stall and bang the nose. I'm still working on this! After several repairs, it is still under 6.0 oz. Most flying, except downlines, is done full throttle. It does NOT like to fly below 3/4 throttle. You can quickly stall the plane if your not careful, and below adequate power.

Thoughts overall: Learning to handle a foamie has been tricky. If the foam or control horns crab on a piece of cloth, or anything else, they will come apart. I think they should include hinges like those used for the rudder, for the ailerons. The elevator mechanism seems to work fine. Sometimes on a fly by, I can see the surfaces fluttering some. I think I'm going to try one of those M100 engines to get some better performance.

Alas: This plane begs to be flown close to the ground. If you do, you might destroy it pretty quick. It is fun, and be careful to make sure it lasts more than one weekend!! It is definately making me think about how to improve on it, with my own design now that I have the basic equipment.
Jim W.
PS -

Charging: The Triton did NOT charge it enough. The two Li-ion, Li-po chargers I have from www.superbatterypacks.com both peaked the batter at 8.5 volts (better performance).

Jim W.

Greg Covey

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the write-up. The T3D is a blast to fly!

David Hsu from eDogFight.com has a hop-up for the T3D that uses the same DX-A motor but changes the Lithium pack to a 3-cell and the prop to a 8x4.3. The 3-cell pack is a lower capacity like the Kokam 340SCH.

Another option was to use an IPS DX-C motor and a 3-cell pack.

It's interesting you mention a Lithium charging problem with the Triton because we suspect a friend of mine has a similar problem. I charged his Kokam 1200HC packs on my Kokam 402 charger several times and he was happy with the flight time and power. Since he started using his Triton, he complains about the flight times.

We plan to run a test tomorrow on them.

Regards.

JRW

When the Triton kicked off, voltage was around 7.67 volts. The voltage from both my DC and AC chargers from Bern F.'s website each had 8.5 volts when charged. Performance was noticably better.

FWIW, this is the only plane I've ever opened up and built that actually matched the predicted weight and performance!
Jim W.

houfek

Greg.....
Any idea how many oz. of thrust you are getting with either of those 3 cell combos ? I have recently put the IPS dual 7.2v on a few models, and per the GWS stats, am getting 10.5 oz of thrust with only a 2S lipo pack.....and the twin only weighs a half oz more than the IPS single.
Thoughts ??

Thanks....

Jim

Greg Covey

Jim,

Those new Kokam 340SHC cells can handle a dual IPS setup but I heard that the extra weight of the second motor becomes prohibative. Notice that the 3-cell packs use smaller capacity cells to reduce the weight of the 3rd cell.

A 2-cell DX-A motor using the 10x4.7 prop gives about 4.8oz of thrust. This is why it is close to the weight of the ship and works well on the first half of the pack charge.

A 3-cell DX-A motor using the 8x4.3 prop gives about 5.3oz thrust. Both setups draw about 2amps.

A 3-cell DX-C motor using a 10x4.7 prop gives about 7.0oz of thrust also drawing about 2amps. It appears to be the biggest improvement.

houfek

Greg...
This all made me do some research (which I should have done before posting my last message !!)

Per the GWS and Balsa Products websites, the IPS 7.2v. twin (B) with a 12x8 prop gives you 8.44 oz. of thrust at 7.2v. The motor weighs 42 grams, or 1.5 oz...thus only .5 oz more than the IPS single. The IPS (C) single weighs almost 30 grams, and with the 10x4.7 as you note, gives us 7 oz. of thrust. Assuming that you go to a 700mah pack for the twin (to increase the run time for the twin which draws twice the single's amps), a pair of ETec 700's weigh almost exactly the same as the 3 cell 340 SHC's, so battery wieight is the same. Net result for using the twin over the single then, would be the .5 oz. penatly for the extra motor......... the gross gain in thrust would be 1.5 oz........all for a net 1 oz. gain in thrust.

One additional consideration is that the number used for the twin's thrust is measured at 7.2v. On the fresh pack of 2 lipos, we would start at 8.4v. which per GWS would give us in excess of 10 oz. of gross thrust, less the weight of the extra motor of .5 oz, or about 2.5 extra oz. of net thrust to start with.

I understand that this is all hypothetical/theoretical.........but it seems to suggest that the twin configuration on two cells is significantly superior to the IPS (C) single on 3 cells. I'm sure I have erred in my calculations somewhere.........again, when you have the time I would appreciate your thoughts and analysis......

Thanks, Greg.....

Jim

Greg Covey

Jim,

That sounds reasonable.

Remember that there are many valid solutions, and, unless you have a huge benefit from one, the best solution is the one you choose.

Other considerations are cost and complexity of the twin IPS motor...but does this outweigh the "coolness" factor? It all depends upon the perception you have for it.

I'm still beating on my stock setup but see the power drop after the first half of the flight. I do have three of the 2-cell Kokam 340SHC packs so I may convert them into two 3-cell packs and try the smaller prop or DX-C motor.

I have many outdoor 3D performers now but only one indoor aerobatic flyer. When my indoor season starts up this Winter, I may choose the lightest system to fly the T3D indoors.

Regards.

AtomHeartMother

This is a fun little plane. I'm running mostly stock with a 10x8 prop. I'm using 1020 kokams and lightflight 1200's on the plane. It seems to have really decent power throughout the charge. The 10x8 prop will shorten the little IPS A's life though I am sure.
The only real mods I've done was to add a carbon fiber spar(about 8 inches long) down the center, underside of the wing. I used poor man's carbon fiber tow(fiberglass strapping tape) on the top and bottom of the wing and on both fuse sides. These mods added tremendous strength to the wing and fuse over stock. I'm about 5.25oz's ready to fly with the 1020 kokams.
My next step is the m100 mod on an eps 100 gearbox. Thrust numbers look outstanding. Weight gain is equal or less than with the IPS twin and amp draw is also less. Seems like you can't lose with this combo. I think I can keep the plane at or under 6oz's with the m100. I really just want more power to hover and knife edge. All other aspects of the stock plane are excellent.

easy2fly

My Feedback: (3)

hey atom, mine weighs 5 7/8 oz with the m100 and epc gb. im using 2cell 700 etecs. it has power to hover and pull out slowly for the first minute. then it just has power to hover, then slowly sinking hover. i havent tried much, but i dont think mine likes to knife edge. i might have to try the twin ips. i think i will, and compare how mine flys, ill let ya'll know if i do.

and one question. why is the aileron tpa e double sided? i havent taken the top off of mine and it does fine, but i will take it off for weight purposes.

Greg Covey

Do you guys know what the current draw is of the M100 motor in your EPS-100 gearbox setup?

Also, what gear ratio and prop are you using with it?

Regards.

JRW

HI guys,

I've been doing some more flying with my T3D. Its been a lot of fun. Because I've been flying over an empty lot and a street, the foam is taking a beeting. I went to Home Depot and bought ($1.79 including tax) a 1/2" wide foam sheet to re-create another plane when needed. This might not be the correct forum, but I want to ask here because you all are familiar with the T3D flight characteristics.

On my next (home made/knock-off) T3D, if I use a 6mm Depron foam wing, will the performance be drastically different than the symmetrical wing it currently has? I have followed a "foamtana" thread from RCGroups, seen the video, and it looks to fly fine with the flat plate 6mm depron foam wing. Because this is off the thread titel, someone could PM me and that would be fine.

Thanks: The T3D is really fun, but I'm quickly tearing it apart!!!
Jim W.

AtomHeartMother

Greg, I intend to use a 10x8 prop with the m100 eps D gearing.
Someone posted on the e-zone forum of an amp draw of 2.8 at 7.2v I believe. Thrust was around 8oz's. If these numbers are correct I can't see how one could go wrong with this mod. The same combo but with a 12x6 prop yielded over 10oz's of thrust at 3.7 amps. Not sure of the voltage on that one.
Easy2fly, what prop are you using ? I'm really surprised to hear your results. If the numbers are correct with the above combo you should have power to hover and pull out thru most of the battery's charge. Mine knife edges pretty well but it's high alpha and needs just a tad more thrust than the IPS can provide to maintain it .
I didn't use that hinge tape at all. I used your garden variety scotch tape on one side only for the ailerons. It's holding up just fine.
It is a great little plane. I guess the real answer is 3 cell lipoly's but I'm trying to avoid the added expense of those along with a pixie7 esc.

easy2fly

My Feedback: (3)

im using a pixie7 sp control, and also an eps "D" drive. which is 6.61:1 i believe. im using a 1047 prop . ill have to try some bigger props. also, where are you in northern ohio?

AtomHeartMother

Hey Easy2fly, I just noticed you're in T-town. I'm about 40 miles east of you in the "parking lot" for Put-In-Bay.
Yes, the 10x4.7 yields around 7 oz's of thrust on that combo I think. I really like the 10x8 for speed and wind penetration on this bird. We flew this evening in steady 10mph lake winds and it handled great.

easy2fly

My Feedback: (3)

i think i might try 3 cells with my m100. do you guys think i should go with 250 or 700 etecs? or instead of three cells, i might go with a dual ips. or possibly both. anyone know how much thrust i would get with 2 cells 700 etecs, and a dual ips? thanks, jeff

AirDog

Realy enjoyed reading this one - thanks Guys -
AirDog

AtomHeartMother

Easy2fly, if you want to go with a 3 cell pack, check out the 340mah high output kokams. They'll handle the amp draw. 250mah e-techs may not be up for the task. I believe the 700 e-techs are only good for around 3.5 amps continuous. Check those figures, I could be wrong. You'll most likely be around 4 amps with the ips twin. It's good power at a decent weight, but a little amp hungry imho.
On 3 cells you'll find the power you're looking for, but probably only in the 340 kokams because they're about the lightest 3 cell pack around at that capacity and output. I got my m100's in the mail. I should have it ready for a test flight tomorrow. I'll post my 'unscientific" observations.

easy2fly

My Feedback: (3)

will the kokams work with this charger? http://www.lightflightrc.com/indexHTML.htm if so, i think i might be ordering a pack tomorrow. good luck on your test flights.

AtomHeartMother

Had a chance to briefly test the m100/D gearbox combo with a 10x8 gws prop. It was too windy to do any extensive testing. In the house, the plane will easily hover at 3/4 throttle, and feels like it'll pull out pretty fast at full throttle. My throttle is not truly linear(along with the gws esc), so the step from 3/4 to full is quite large. I just held the plane very gently by it's wingtip with my finger and thumb and played with the throttle. Torque is clearly more pronounced as I could feel the plane trying to twist left in my fingers. I did fly it outside and for 15 mph winds it flew pretty well. The extra power was evident as I had little trouble going up wind. I hope to get some stick time Monday if it calms down. But for now, it looks like it'll be an awesome combo. My target weight was right on cue. With a 1020 kokam I'm about 5.75oz's ready to fly. That's not bad considering the larger battery and motor. I did whittle on the gearbox some and also used the carbon fiber propeller shaft to save some weight. More to come...

Oh...if you're talking about the CH-C74111 charger, yes that will work Easy2fly.

Greg Covey

We flew the T3D at last weekend's local e-fly in the evening. I am glad that I had four 2-cell packs for it because people were lining up to try it.

My T3D is still stock and the 2-cell Kokam 340SCH packs were simply awesome! They held power for almost the entire flight.

It was the first time that I had a chance to fly the T3D in dead-calm conditions. The plane is a great design and indeed lived up to its name - Trainer 3D.