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Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

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Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

Old 09-09-2003, 07:05 PM
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Boomstriker
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Default Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

I know now, that this thing has issues with the CA hinges- after I built mine of course.
I've had some fail after only a few flights, but only on the ailerons.
My question is, has anyone had problems with other brand CA hinges or should I tear it apart and use some quality pinned nylon ones?
Also, the 2-stroke eng vibs through the wings is louder than the eng itself.
The prop is balanced and I even mounted the eng on rubber but it's still sounds terrible!
Has anyone cut the front off and used a nylon mount? A least then I could side mount the eng so the muffler isn't into the wing.
Besides changing to a 4-stroke-- what's the cure with the vibs????

Thanks in advance!!!!


Kirk
Old 09-09-2003, 11:13 PM
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Warren
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

I've always wondered why some have issues wit CA hinges and most don't.

How did yours fail? Did they just pull out or tear the wood?

The key for successful CA hinges is to flood them with a good 4-5 drops on the first install.

I've seen some do 1-2 drops thinking they will go back and do more later; I think the later addition of CA does not soak in at all and is useless, and they are left with a weak bond.
Old 09-09-2003, 11:26 PM
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splatt1o1
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

I was able to get over 200 flight before my hinges fail.just put on new nylon ones at least it made it down with one aleron. About the viberation mine is not that bad with TT61 Pro my biggest gripe is the landing gear mount keeps braking
Old 09-10-2003, 07:55 AM
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Dug89
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

Nice to know that I'm not the only one with landing gear problems on the Pizzaz. I've tried installing the gear forward and backward and still knock them off. I have 1/4-20 nylon screws that are thankfully shearing.

I think the cure is straight landing gear. The stock gear angles forward causing an angular force applied to the fuse on hard landings. This twists the gear on impact. Straight gear will apply the force straight to the fuse.

Of course, my harrier landings are not helping either, but that is another story...
Old 09-10-2003, 09:51 AM
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Boomstriker
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

No, the hinges aren't pulling from the wood - that would be my fault not using enough CA.
They're breaking clean right at the gap, as if the plastic in the center is too brittle.
I've got planes that are many years old and countless hours of flight time and never had a problem with CA hinges breaking in flight.
The hole in the middle of the hinge may be half the ding-dang problem.

Kirk
Old 09-10-2003, 10:24 AM
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LancelowDowell
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

Yup, the h9 ca hinges are well known for breaking. I ususally use the great planes ca hinges, as they are one solid piece. As for the noise, that's just the way the pizzaz is. For some reason the thing just likes to resonate.
Old 09-10-2003, 10:24 AM
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Joe Trinkley
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

Before I started building mine I read all the posts on RCU and took Termigators advice and put on GP hinges....he said his failed awfully quickly, I've only had about 5 flights on my Pizazz but they seem to be holding on good....I've never heard of this 4 or 5 drops of ca though, I thought it was important to only put 2 drops on each side.....or is that what you meant by 4 or 5? or is it 4 or 5 on each side?
Old 09-10-2003, 04:58 PM
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

I put at least 200 flights on mine before retirement. I never had a hinge failure. I did however use the GP hinges. Putting them in to tight will cause them to fail every time. You can't push the AILE all the way up and then glue. You have to deflect the surface to whatever angle your max throw will be.Then apply CA. I put 4-5 drops on holding the plane tail down and do the same tail up. If there is any that dosn't soak in dab it up with a paper towel.
As far as the noise. Yea they all do that at certain RPMs. One thing I would check is the diaginal sticks in the wing. Mine were cut to short and not glue correctly. I had to open the wing and replace them. I'm talking about the ones that run from the spar to the ribs.
later david
Old 09-10-2003, 07:49 PM
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Warren
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

I do 4-5 top and the same on the bottom. It helps to drill a small hole in the middle of the slot; this will allow it to wick well into the structure.

I've been using CA hinges since Sig came out with them in the early 90's, and have never had a failure this way.
Old 09-11-2003, 02:58 PM
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malcolmm
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

I've never used CA hinges, but have gotten tired of using pinned hinges. I'm still a little confused over where and how much thin CA to use.

Say I am applying glue to the top surface of the hinge, do I apply a couple of drops to each side of the hinge, trying to keep the glue from the centre of the hinge?

Or do I just put the 4 or 5 drops in the middle of the hinge and let the glue flow to either side?

Malcolm
Old 09-11-2003, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

<
Or do I just put the 4 or 5 drops in the middle of the hinge and let the glue flow to either side?
Bingo...

Then flip it over and go for 4-5 more once you've completed all the hinges. Have a paper towel ready to wipe of excess, and clean of any residue with acetone.
Old 09-12-2003, 12:01 AM
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3DEEP
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

I just tried to fly through a tree today with my Pizazz. That's what it took to fry the stock hinges. The plane smacked a branch at about 3/4 throttle, and only broke the last wing bay in front of the main spar and the switch mount. Both have already been repaired. I am thinking of covering the bottom of both wings and stabs with trans yellow. I want to make it a little more discernable when rolling on dual rates.
Old 09-12-2003, 07:51 PM
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easysport
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

H9 hinges suck my ultra stick lost some the same way buy some Pro CA hinges tower has em. They are reinforced with plastic and some people swear by them
Old 09-13-2003, 09:09 AM
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bentgear
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Default RE: Pizzaz disappointment--- CA hinges?!

H9 slots the center of the ca style hinge so that ca can wick to the ends easily. For some reason I prefer to use the Great Planes hinge material cut to 1" x 1" squares or larger for larger planes. I also like to drill a 1/16" hole into the balsa where the hinge will go to allow the ca to wick in quickly.

Make sure the ca hinge will fit the slot. You don't want it so tight that you risk crimping the hinge when you install it. You don't want it so loose that the hinge material can't get a tight bond. I recut the hinge slot on every ARF I build with a slot machine, makes them just right, plus with the wider hinge I like to use it easy to widen the slot.

Trial fit everything together with pins placed in the center of the hinge material so that the hinge material will be evenly distibuted in the parts. I first place the hinge in the aileron, rudder, elevator, etc then working from the outside edge slowly work the hinges into place, if you get bad binding going in pull it apart, clean out the slots again and retry.

When its together and you are satisfied with the fit use a fine felt tip pin and put a small mark on the control surface close to the pins, then pull the pins. Shove everything together so there is no gap. Grab the control surface close to both ends and flex it just past the desired deflection you will need while slightly pushing in to hold the hinge line together. This should give you the gap needed.

Lets discuss that gap for a moment. If you are going for 45 degree deflections, the surfaces must be beveled. Don't rely on a large gap between surfaces to achieve the deflection. You will have major slop in the hinge line. You should be able to see light thru the gap. if you can't its too tight and will stress the hinge material. If its a 1/16" the gap is too large. The gap should be the same all along the hinge line.

ONLY USE THIN CA. I like to apply the ca using a small capillary tube stuck in the bottle, it gives small drops right where I need them. I put about 5 to 6 drops per side of each hinge. Remember the marks you made of the surfaces, makes locating the hinge easy. When its all dry flex the surfaces. Do not go back and add more ca, it will not wick in and I think it will make the hinge line brittle.

Seal the hinge lines, this is important. If you don't know how do a simple search and you will find many discussion on it.

You will be rewarded with a long life hinge that will only fail by pulling the wood out with the hinge.

Ed M.

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