I have a bone stock 11.25 lbs 1/4 scale Sig Cap 231EX with an OS 1.60 and a 18X8 zinger prop. I have 3 digital servos on the tail and two analogs on the ailerons. My current rates are 100% of low on elevator and ailerons and about 130% of high on rudder. The CG is right in the middle of what the recommend (I'm at about 30% MAC) and the fuel tank is a tad bit aft of the CG (1-2 inches).

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I've been doing some SNAPS and SPINS with it and on low rates it does them VERY slow and graceful. It does them both beautifully with rudder and elevator only while going fast. If I add aileron while snapping at high speeds it doesn't look very nice, but at low speeds with ailerons it makes it look good after about half a barrel roll. Either because of my CG location or lack of elevator and aileron, I cannot get the plane to flatten out while spinning. I'm ready to move to high rates and move the CG back but I'm afraid that I'm going to rip the wings off the plane. What am I safe doing with this plane? I've though about replacing the nylon wing bolts with steel bolts, and beefing up the fuse right where the wing bolts bolt into. I have 1 wing retaining down glued back to the spar (about 6 inches), and the other one is glued up front where the dirrections recomend (about 2 inches).

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I just tried doing lomcovaks my last flight and was able to perform a couple (I think) I started a 45 degree up line at full throttle and did a positive snap using full left rudder, full left aileron, and full up elevator. After about 1/2 - 3/4 through the snap I gave it full down elevator while keeping rudder, elevator, and full throttle then 1 of 3 things happened:

1. When I timed it right I was able to get it to tumble end over end once then the airplane stopped tumbling and did a a pronounced inverted harrier for about a second (a clear stop at the inverted harrier position) and then fell out of the maneuver.
2. When I timed it right the airplane kept tumbling end over end while falling strait down (isn't this a waterfall?). (If I remember right it may have gyrated a bit also)
3. when I did the maneuver too early, or if I let off the aileron, it didn't tumble at all and instead did an ugly sort of snap roll.

I'm thinking more throw and more rearward CG will help. I've tried this maneuver without using aileron at all and while the beginning snap looked really nice, the rest of the maneuver looked ugly.
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This is my first airplane that has a tendencies to lower a wing when stalling I can feel it coming on and when it happens it does it very slowly and I can correct with aileron and elevator very quickly. When it begins to stall the airplane starts to mush along, after a seconds or two it slowly drops a wing. As I move the CG back will I have a chance of snapping it into the ground? Or will it just drop a wing faster?

Before messing around with your cg you should definetly try the high rates. It may need a cg adjustment to a flat spin, but try the high rates first. As far as ripping the wings off, doubtful in a flatspin, maybe a blender. If you glassed the wings you should be ok, and make sure that the wing bolts have a washer underneath so they hold a larger surface area. Incase you aren't 100% sure on entering a flat spin, here is what I do: It starts sort of like a blender. Start climbing vertically, then cut the throttle. Put both sticks towards the antenna, so full throttle, right rudder, down elevator, left aileron. As soon as the plane is pointed towards the ground, move your right stick over to the right, so it start going to right aileron. Don't jerk it over, but move it so that it doesn't take more than 2 seconds to get it over there. It should start flattening out, and depending on your throws and cg, you may need to stop before you get to full deflection, or if it wont flatten you may need more deflection. Good luck

Alex

OK, thanks for the info, I'll try that out. I did not glass the wing joint. I put a lot of epoxy on the joint though. Should I peel back about 2 inches along the center, glass it, and recover it? It's an ARF so I don't know how the wing it self is constructed.

It's a CAP, of course it snps and spins well

If the wing is skinned (a solid layer of balsa all the way around), then definetly fiberglass it. Usually I peel the covering back about 2 inches on both sides of the wing joint. Do this on the top and bottom of the wing. Then you will need to buy some fiberglass sheet. A sq. yd is about 5 bucks at you LHS, and you will have plenty left over. There are different weaves though, some are very tight and are like silk, and others are very spaced out. You want some that is fairly spaced out, dont get the really fine kind. This way the epoxy will be able to mix in. Then just get some 30 minute epoxy, put a small thin coating on the wing, then place the fiberglass over it(cut it to fit), then take a paintbrush and paint the epoxy into the fiberglass, this is why you want the fiberglass that has the looser weave. Make sure it's stuck down well, and let it dry. Do it to the top and bottom and you shouldn't have to worry about your wing ever again. If you used plenty of epoxy in the first place you are probably fine, but adding the fiberglass gives you added confidence, and it may end up holding it together after you put it through a full throttle blender. Good luck

Alex

I was able to get it to flat spin over and over and over and over again yesterday! VERY pretty!! Some times when I timed it right it actually climbed in a flat spin for just a little bit. I made a hard landing when I stalled on landing though. I wasn't used to the pitchyness with the extra elevator I put in and when it touched down I heard a loud CRACK and it bounced up about 2-3 feet, on the next touch down the gear came off and it landed on its belly breaking the prop and putting two holes in the wing covering where the pants went through. The really kicker is that the reason I was landing is because the exhaust pitch was changing and getting louder. one muffler bolt came out witch gave the belly slide enough energy to rip the other bolt out causing the !QUOT!ear!QUOT! to break off the engine. The glue held up around the landing gear, it was the plywood that snapped in half. True it was a hard landing, but it wasn't THAT hard. This time I'm going to glass the undercarriage and I'm going to use aircraft quality plywood.

Will thin CA and the fine mesh glass work as well as the Epoxy and coarse mesh?

Yes, the thin ca and fine mesh is another option. If you already did a flatspin without it you are fine, I just use the epoxy and course mesh because it's a little bit stronger. Either one will work, and congrats on the flat.

Alex

Got two flights on mine then blew up my lithium ion (picture one). Here is where I am at now. Replaced the light ply with normal ply and triangle reinforced every joint back to the wing. The wing bolt mount looked a bit weak to me so I reinforced with epoxy and will put another plate on top of real ply. Loving inverted spins and tumbles it would only be a matter of time till they seperated and made the fuselage that much faster without the wing. Tomorrow I will glass reinforced the landing gear mount and wing center. Like the plane. Can't wait to get it back in the air.