I'm no hovering expert but I've never heard that having to use the ailerons was good. I thought the theory was to enter the hover nice and smooth (from an elevator or harrier or even a simple stall turn - just don't turn). That way the only inputs would be throttle/ele/rudder. If you start chasing it around reenter and try again.

Billy...

I think you are confusing hover with torque roll....A hover will become a torque roll if you hold it long enough and don't use any aileron to correct!

Maybe that's why I'm having problems!! (just kidding)

I HAVE BEEN TORQUE ROLLING FOR ABOUT A YEAR NOW AND MY FRIENDS AT THE FIELD CANT BELIVE HOW MUCH I HAVE PROGRESSED. THEY KIDDINGLY CALL ME QUEQIE JR. I AM TORQUE ROLLING ON THE DECK NOW WITH MY 35% EXTRA. WHEN THEY ASK HOW I LEARNED I TELL THEM ALL THE SAME THING , REALFLIGHT G2. I CANT RECOMEND IT ENOUGH. YOU CAN MAKE MISTAKES FOR WEEKS OR MONTHS UNTIL ONE NIGHT AT 1:00 AM YOU FINALY START TO GET AHEAD OF THE PLANE. ALSO I HAVE BEEN HELPING SOME FRIENDS OUT AND ALOT OF EARLY PROBLEMS ARE DUE TO POOR THROTTEL MANAGMENT. ALSO YOUR ENTRY IS CRITICAL OR YOU WILL BE CHASEING YOUR PLANE AROUND THE SKY AND NOT LEARNING TO TORQUE ROLL.

I hover and torque roll an 8 lbs 60SuDoKhoi w. YS91AC spinning a modified Zinger16x6. I do find that flying or bumping your throttle makes either much easier. It can depend on the weight, prop and at which throttle setting the plane will maintain altitude. If hovering at a steady throttle setting, your elevator and rudder inputs are far less effective, than if you time them with a blip of the throttle, as in flying the throttle.
I have to get me some of them apc16x4W for my YS91AC engines, does Tower sell them?
DKjens

Tower hobbies dont have 16x4 W as yet..

You could order one from APC

Your flying the throttle theory is interesting to me. What makes that work better than a steady setting? Let's say a steady hover is 4 clicks of throttle. Would blipping necessitate going from say 7 to 3 and back again sort of thing? Inquiring minds need to know

Head to http://www.apcprop.com/store/agora.cgi . They gig you a little on shipping but for flat pitch APC props they are the only source. I got my 13x4 for a .61X, a 17x6 for a YS 120 and some other hard-to-find propellers.

-Cheech

bob_nj,
I tryed to learn to hover with a steady throttle, but I didn't feel that I had enough control. I read somewhere about blipping the throttle, and I tryed that. My learning curve became much steeper after that. I can often bring my SDK down in a tailslide, then when it's about to fall out, a blip or two of the throttle, and it's back on track, but closer to the deck.
I think, that if the person does not want the plane to start TR'ing, a steady throttle is probably more assuring and demands less work on the ailerons to keep the plane from TR'ing. I on the other hand like to get my plane into TR'ing, and the flying the throttle thing will do that well.
Different folks, different strokes I guess, but go out and try the blipping, you may like it.

Cheech, thanks, I will go there and look for props. Which YS120 do you have? I have the YS120 that came after the YS120AC. I had read that the highest thrust prop for that engine (any YS120 actually) is the Zinger 16x6. How well does your 120 pull that apc17x6? I know the 17x6 is the best prop for Saito150/180.
If your 61 runs well (2 stroke right) also try a Zinger14x4. I had that on a Magnum61 on a Macs pipe, WooHoo.

DKjens

My YS is the same as yours, I believe. After the air chamber but not the current engine. It just says 120 F on it. I liked the 17x6 just great, but it was NOT the best hovering prop actually. This prop and engine is on a big profile fun fly plane. I started wth a 16x10 on it when first bench running the engine. My buddy and I had each just rebuilt a pair of these 120's. I have tried the 16x10, the 16x8 and the 17x6 . As far as best prop in the powerband at hover, we are all in agreement that the 16x10 is the most cointrollable. We're talking about subtle differences, though, an I am being nit-picky.

I lost the 17x6 prop to a lean run caused by a teeny fuel line leak. The YS coughed off the spinner, nuts, prop, washer, etc... The prop was damaged. I then went back down to the 16x8. Great thrust, but wrong RPM when in the hover zone. I am flying the 16x10 again this afternoon. Even though it seems wrong, it IS the best performer for me and I will stick with it.

-Cheech

Interesting....

Billy Hell, you are one funny guy, but very likeable. It's funny how you strike me as one who really wants to absorb all the knowledge that is available in this forum, or anywhere, but you do refrain from asking a lot if silly questions, like many others at your level do. Cheech did bring up an interesting point. The prop producing the most stationary thrust, may not be the best prop for hovering and TR'ing. It oftne depends on at what throttle setting the prop/engine produces the thrust needed to maintain altitude. A prop that produces the most thrust at WOT, may not produce a whole heck of alot below say 75% throttle, so to hover, the throttle has to be well above 50%, which to many is to high a throttle setting. I do like a prop which is not very jumpy, so I can blip my throttle in large blips without having the plane jump all over the place, but it induces good TR, I guess I like a "soft" prop.
Billy, just burn some fuel, there is no way around it. Hovering and TR'ing becomes more and more 2nd nature with time, before you know it, signals wil go straight from your eyes to your fingers, bypassing the brains he he, and it will all make sense.
DKjens

That's what I meant by interesting. I would never have thought to go that way. The great part is I have a bunch of props and will be out bright and early trying them out. Reading Cheech's post opened my eyes.
Your right I am all about absorbing. I do feel free to ask any question I have here. I'm not pretending to know it all or even a little. I feel very comfortable with all the folks that live on RCU. I try to say thank you every now and then to show my appreciation. THANKS RCUers!

I didn't read (or at least I missed the reply) where anyone says a thing about C.G. I've flown that Edge (The difference is that I'm flying over 8000ft.) on a 2 stroke 1.80. I find it's nose heavy with CG balance as said in the construction manual. Spread weight all over the fuselage so u don't have to add any more weight to the tail. Remember an easily hoverable plane should be a bit tail heavy(and the lighter, the better). Actually u should be able to fly a stable knife-edge flight using nothing more than 1/3 throttle.
Don't move sticks like mad.... gentle stick movements will deliver a better hover performance. (it works pretty good for me).
When an experienced flyer is hovering a plane, doesn't "rock" throttle much more than 3 - 4 clicks up or down. When doing a Torque Roll they rock the throttle because it makes the plane to roll faster, not because they're still finding the right rpm's to mantain the hover.
About the wing drop... I'd put an extra right trust degree on that engine. I found my 1st hoverable plane ( a Christophe Paysant's Madness) had zero right thrust marked in the plans and when finished it, I was unable to hover the damn thing. Actually it made the best-fastest left hammerheads I've ever seen every time I released a bit the full-right rudder. Of course it was corrected adding 1 1/2° right thurst.

Forgive mispellings. This is not my 1st language.

Greetings every1

I got to stand next to some guys flying at the Joe Nall and watch what stick inputs they were doing during a tail touch contest. I wonder how quickly they wear out their tranny pots! I was amazed how fast they moved the sticks all over the place. I am just learning and have found that smooth moves are more natural to me but will be trying to imitate the pros and see if it makes a difference.

Do you remember is the majority of those quick movements were made with just thumbs, or thumb and forefinger? I tend to do lots of smooth flying and found that thumb and forefinger are perfect for that, but not for quick rudder movements with the nose in the air, especially to the left

http://www.gsal.org/articles/flying/torque_roll.htm


This is a site that explains the torque-roll. It might have been posted before in this thread, I'm not sure (I'm too lazy to read every replies )