Ali

My Feedback: (5)

I like the way biggles goes on about the time probuild take to finish a model and how it has to be perfect to justifies the price. I have only ever seen one example of Pro builds building up close and that was The Boys Back very own Alliance which by biggles (Probuilds) standards was very nice.
Without being vindictive this model wasn't worth the £2500.00 price that dave (The boys back) sold it for (After very little flying). I should know I sold it for him, and I was embarrassed. I have seen better builds by newcomers to the hobby,absolutely appalling. The paint finish was totally substandard, it was no way near a match for the profilm, which was poorly applied. I think the only thing that lookead half decent on this model was it's carbon formers. If I remember rightly the engine fell out of the model on one of its first flights. All of this on a £5000.00 model. I honestly have forgotten the list of other faults with this model but I remember thinking if it were mine and I had just picked it up I would be well pi**ed.
I remember the day Dave picked it up. He phoned me on the drive back to tell me is thoughts. Lets just say he found it a little difficult to sit down after that. This is why I find it a little hard to ready Biggles defending pro builds pricing using their high standards as an excuse.

simon Ka

Whoah Moma!!.....body blow - body blow.....knock out punch![sm=punching.gif]

Luke 3D returns

Oh yeah i remember discussion about that alliance a while back

robert

And yet on the other hand, they built my Funtana to an outstanding spec. Everything was absolutely perfect, I could not flaw a single part of the airplane. Build, weight, covering, etc etc, just brilliant. I doubt, however, that this will change anything because people believe what they want to, its human nature.

Ian.W

how much did it cost you robert? and how long did it take them to build?

Biggles-RCU

Ali - We were well aware of the problem experienced with the motor of Dave's Alliance, If I remember rightly we did offer to correct the fault and we did speak the person who made the installation. Ali why does Brandon choose Probuild and if I am honest why is he the best in the UK. Why has he ordered so many models from us over the years. Brandon's a commercial lawyer and he knows the in and out of ripping people off better than most!

Also a friend is a Chief Aeronautical Engineer, who has worked with The Breitling Fighters (led by Ray Hanna)Nigel Lamb etc. He in my opinion is in a better situation to comment about standards than yourself. Bearing in mind the decisons he makes are Dependant on someones life. He has looked at the quality of Probuilds work and said that, Phil is a very talented chap and he would love to learn about Phil's work. My friend is a Top Aeronautical Engineer, qualified to work on Warbirds, was engineer to Nigel Lamb on tour to Malaysia.

The quality of Dave's Alliance (bar the engine mounting , which Phil did not do, and we accept responsibility for) was good quality. I am not going to comment about the way you run your business Ali, for that I will show some respect and agree to differ!

Ali - if our prices are high, go to PL, ZN they are far higher!

Colour wise - the film to paint standard, was fine, I saw that and at that time I was a customer myself. Still am to some degree, although I contribute to Probuild all be it on a part-time basis!
(As I have said, there is no money in model ling - I have a proper job!)

Ali - if you worked on full size and had someone's life on your shoulders, it would qualify you for comment about a quality issue. At this time working in a model shop I don't see that to be the case!

If you want to comment about a quality issue, please feel free to ask. My friend (who is registered on here) will clarify construction methods, quality related issues with you!

Kind Regards

Biggles-RCU

Ali - to to clarify, a customer when they collect a model has the right to accept or decline if they are paying. That's common sense surely. Phil built my Caprise ago to a lovely standard - I still have it, it was set up perfectly. the work is fantastic - I say this as a customer, I paid well over £1300 for a bolt together model, to this day I love it!!

Want some pics? I'll show you poor (if that's what you call it !) Quality!

I have noting to hide!

Baron UK

Go on Biggles post pics anyway. I love the Caprise.

Brings back memories of the first time I saw the boy fly it @ Sandown STUNNING

[8D]

£1,300 sounds cheap.

Rhilluk

go on post some picies, we all like picies

simon Ka

I thought he owned 5 of them- probably the biggest mail order RC supplier in the UK, one of the biggest jet dealers in Europe, advises on arf design and construction, a British Freestyle and World Jet champion......really, he's got every qulification in my book to recognise quality.....bit of a mouse and elephant story this one.

Lets compare apples with apples....what has full size got to do with this???? I took a very close look at Brandons Probuild Evolis and Kevin Catons ZN built and finished Alliance at the NATS a few years back.......Evolis was OK, Alliance was a piece of art, truely stunning.

Ian.W

I don't want to get too involved with this, cos i don't know the ins and outs of the big money side of modeling and pro build and any storys behind dodgy models. but............you say you think Brandon is the best in the UK cos he buys from pro build? well, to me, surly hes the best in the UK cos he can fly well? CPLR doesn't buy from pro build (unless I'm mistaken, then i apologies) but he seems to be the best in the world, makes no sense?!?! he cant be that good if he isn't a pro build customer?

robert

It is sensitive in this case, however I will say that it was cheaper than all others I had researched, and although alot to pay for a model (as in anything £200+ is alot), I was happy with the price, it was worth it, I never looked back at it or regreted it, and I would pay it again. I don't know how long it took to build but from what I remember it was a helluvalota time, and that was reflected I felt in the quality.

I too do not want to get too involved in this but wish to balance things by giving my perspective. Again, will it change things? I doubt it very much.

Rhilluk

Robert: Post some picies of it please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welsh3D

gotta be honest his funtana build was vvvverry nice!

simon Ka

Thats all built up isn't it? Maybe its just painting composite fuz's that Probuild don't seem very good at.
Saying that the covering I saw on The Boy's Alliance was amateur....that was a few years ago, perhaps they're getting
the hang of it now.

Ali

My Feedback: (5)

Biggles let me try to get this right.
Because I am not involved in full size I am in no position to comment on the quality of a model aircraft. So my 24 years of model flying and my last 10 years of model retail experience are worth nothing. Think about what you are saying. Does it make sense to you?
Also Brandon is the best in the Uk because his models are built by probuild. Is he the best pilot in the Uk or merley the F3A champion. Also is it his flying skill or the model that make him champion?
As far as the Alliance that Dave had. You are right. The film to paint finish was OK. Ok for a modeler painting a model in his shed with no lights and a paintbrush. To give you a indication of how bad it was the second owner who paid half the price that dave paid (£2500.00) repainted the entire model. When I asked him recently what he thought of the model his exact words were
!QUOT!The paint finish was shocking!QUOT! !QUOT!In his opinion the model was in no way near worth £5000.00!QUOT! and his last quote was !QUOT!I felt I paid too much at £2500.00!QUOT! No once again this is a modeler who has had many years experience in this hobby and has models custom built for him on a regular basis. He flies a selection of high class models from jets to pattern planes, but guess this makes his opinion totally worthless.
As for making comments about the way I run my business. This is basically what this all boils down to. I have never ever written an critical or insulting post ref somebodies business. Phill on the other hand has be quoted by more than one person insulting my business and the way I run it. Now this has been on running for a number of years and I put this down to the mans unstable nature, but when he makes a direct racial insult toward me to one of my friends I have to draw the line. I understand and have been told by people that know Phill better than I do that he is not always fully balanced and I can excuse some of his insulting behavior to this but enough is enough. I obviously owe you Biggels an apology for the fact that I mistook you for Phill Williams but I can not apologize for my attacking the model that Pro build built for a friend of mine. I find it very hypocritical that I man that insults my business can have the audacity to charge £5000.00+ for a model with a subtended finish that failed in one of its early flights.

Rhilluk

There's a good piccy of a Synergy by Probuild in RC Model World for anyone who hasn't a seen a painted model from PB, I thought it was pretty impressive, but then I know nothing about painting fuses.

Biggles - does PB paint them themselves, or contract it out?

The boys Back

1st flight 3rd curcuit (and the wheels would not vome down so it ploped on its belly)

Rhilluk

Were they new's or mech's. Did they give you an explanation for it. eg. Was it lack of quality, forgetfullness, normal modelling mishap, badluck.

The boys Back

engine bolts were loose as for the wheels i think it was a servo overthrow problem or somthing, long time ago now, he did fix it all.

club 20 king

Just picked up an Empress/High society/Sombrero from Julian Cox at Flight Power UK this morning. What can I say other than what a service and what a top bloke. Paid 550 for the rtf model and he threw in some free MK bits and pieces and some carbon horns.... To top it all off we popped down his local field and gave me a full test drive of his own model with Hacker C50 etc....

Made the purchase feel all the more sweeter.

As for probuild, (this IS constructive criticism) I am not going to rave and rant about their prices but what I do have to say is this. Please Phil (I know your reading this) don't moan about the hours you put into making a 3 or £4000 model. It is your choice to build it as much as it is the customers to pay it. If you want to just be left with a handful of customers who can afford your services then so be it. Just in reading this thread you have lost out on nearly a 1000 quid on high society's so it's clearly something you're not worried about. Just remember we're just a bunch of kids who never grew up and just want to buy toy planes! I just hope that you do not put silly prices on all Chip Hyde's new imports.

Final point. Had an email reply from Seba saying that Al's Hobbies will be his outlet for the Funtana 140s artf. Way to go!. Hope you are getting the QQ Yak 54 as well????????????

club 20 king

PS if you want a top building service try the old man out. I dare any man who can question his value for money and incredible build quality (LIGHT and STRAIGHT). He does it because he loves it.....

http://www.flying.to/petesplanes

simon Ka

Sounds like the Flightpower boys will be selling a few more High Societys in the UK.

Club 20 King....you going for electric or IC power?

Great news that Ali will be stocking the Seba stuff.....got to have one of those YAKs.

wolf123

Ok boy
Apart discussion for Phil policies that don't took me because i live in Italy
how the high society/sombrero flies?
Next week i receive my 3 high society from Lorenz and i like to have more information on it.
Mirco

Ian.W

simon, the yaks are quique yaks. you can get them other places aswell