Hey Gang,
Well I've stepped it up. I'm flying a 1/4 scale G-202 (GP, with a OS 1.6FX) pretty proficently now. Upside down rudder turns, Right side up, Knife edge figure 8's, rolling circles, I think I have that all down pat now.
However, I am still unable to do any 3D stuff at all (Everyone asks me to show them some 3D all the time - but I can't! Feel like a slacker LOL). I pull up into a vertical leg and chop the power and try hanging there bouncing the throttle, but nothing. I fall out right away and if I manage to input the correct control throw to keep it in, it just snaps out in the opposite direction.
Is there a logical progression to learning this stuff? Where should I start and how can I tell if the aircraft is capable?
Is it just a matter to keep plugging away at it? I'm sure I have adaquate throws, how long will this take? LOL
Rick

Burning fuel is the best way to get proficient at it. Matter of fact, its the best way to get proficient at anything in this hobby...

I've never flown a GP Giles with a 1.60 so Im not sure what its potential is.

Someone out there will be able to help you more on that.


Just keep at it.

Rick,
I have a GP Giles with a Moki 2.1. It's a monster! The Giles excels at rolling manuvers. It will 3D but has some limitations. Make sure that the CG is as far back as you're comfortable flying and that the wings and elevator are warp free! Don't take this for granted!
Anything will torque roll... Even my Cub did with a big motor. Excess power helps here because as soon as the plane starts to fall out the thrust collumn shifts and suddenly you're not hovering any more. You have to increase throttle when it falls out not only to maintain rudder authority but because the plane is moving backwards. If you hear the prop start to rip, the plane's falling backwards (cavitation of the prop), if it starts to spin quickly it's also falling backwards. You need to hit the throttle long enough to get straightened out, then back off to hover. Try some different props. We like Zingers on the 2.10, 1.8, 1.4 and 1.35 for 3D because they spin up fast and seem to torque better. (subjective opinion here, maybe they allow the engine to spool up into the torque band better than the APC's do...?)
Light weight is your best bet in 3D. The Giles is not light compared to the Cap and Edge but it will 3D. It's just not a forgiving, and will snap out if you are ham fisted at all.
Try mixing spoilerons and flaperons (elevator-spoiler and elevator-flap mixes) on a switch so that you can select between them and normal aileron function.
Spoilerons (up ailerons with up elevator) will help smooth out the wing rocking in harriers and elevators. I usually use high rates on everything and hold full up, jockey the throttle for attitude and altitude. Pay attention to the wings, usually they'll stop rocking with one more click of throttle.
Flaperons (down ailerons with up elevator) will help the plane "pop" in walls, suicides, and waterfalls. Get the plane into a hover, rock it on it's back a little bit, apply full down elevator and full throttle, and see what it does. Usually it'll do 3/4 of a waterfall and try to exit the side. I carry a little right rudder to keep it straight.
Blenders are a downward vertical roll for 2 rotations, then you slam opposite rudder-down elevatorand full throttle. As the plane flattens out you walk the ailerons over to keep it level. It's impressive when it works. The Giles is hell for stout, so you shouldn't have a problem with it coming apart, just manage the throttle.
If you've got any specific 3D questions just shoot me an email. [email protected]

Chris

Chris,

Nice post...

Simulators are also good for this.

I use Real flight. the standard plane definitions don't work for this, but you can down load some planes that react a little like the real thing. Might save a plane or two while you are learning.

Some say to use a Gyro on rudder when you are starting out. i tried it, maybe it helped a little, but not much, i don't recomend them, unless of course you want to buy my old one!

How about some pointers to "real thing" downloads for those of us in need of 3D clue?

There are a couple good sources for G2 files.

Try the unofficial swap page.
http://zeus.rcwizard.com/fubar_hill/G2.htm

The plane i use is called Cap 232 2x, i don't remember where i got it (not from the above link), but there are similar ones on this page.

I suspect there is an official Real flight swap page. You might want to check with Real Flight for the location.

http://www.bestrc.com/hobbies-bin/rf...p.pl?Page_Num="1" - The official RealFlight site. This should pop up the aircraft swap page. The Cap 232 2x is on this site.

On the other site given by shmo46 the Ultimate 3D is also very good for some 3D flying.

I've found that both these planes won't waterfall. But it could be just me. The Ultimate 3D will do a modified waterfall with full rudder deflection input as well. But then it doesn't fall over straight. It rolls while tumbling.

There's one other plane that does everything very well and it's the Cap 232 J and H. But I can't for the life of me find where to get it. The only thing about it I don't like is that there's isn't much power to spare. It hovers 2 clicks below full throttle. But it does all the manuvers very smoothly. "Or all the manuvers I am able to do."

Josh

I've downloaded and flown the Cap 232 2X. It's a sharp simulation and great fun to fly. I'll have to crack open the "3D manual" and give it a go!

Thanks!

This is a true 3D maneuver. I won't even try to explain any other one but this and I don't even have this one down pat.

I usually enter a hover maneuver with very little forward flight and the engine just above and idle. I pull up to virtical and using airlons turn the plane so the top is facing me. When I get the plane virtical the 1st thing I have to do is find the throttle position that will hold it in place and then work the rudder to keep the plane virtical. I haven't done anything to trim this plane for this maneuver so I find that I have to play with all of my controls to keep it in one place. Because of this I rarely am able to let the plane torgue roll and when I do it is only for a few seconds. On a good day I can keep the plane is one place for several seconds before it falls out.

It helps greatly if your power-to-weight ratio is significant. This does 2 things. 1) It gives you a mid-level power range for hover and 2.) plenty of reserve power to pull out of harms way -- this gives you the warm fuzzy to keep working at the hover even if you feel its going to break. You should have this with the 1/4-scale G-202 and the OS FX 1.60. It also helps if your running a low-end prop pitch.

Practice!!!!! Practice!!!! Practice!!!! I don't see how you should have too much difficulty here if your able to do half of the other things you say you've mastered, e.g., Rolling Circle!!!! -- that's something I'll try after I've mastered more of 3D.

Sorry to say dude but the gp g202 SUCKS AT 3D I tried to torq it in real flight and it would go bazerk

I tried a few others last night. The only one that is any good so far is the Cap 232 2x on the G2 site. You will love it.

I don't know if there is quite enough power. When I get it to stop climbing and then punch the power it really won't pull straight out. Just a little shy on the power. How about some more pointers on how to do 3D with a REAL plane ;-)
Rick

Just got my first 1.60 today, ( ) so i don't have any experience with your engine or plane, but i can say that prop choice is realllly important for getting the low speed pull you need. i was talking to a guy yesterday, who uses 18x6 and is considering going to a 20 x 6 with that engine.

Yo Shmo46!! wait That rhymes!! shibby!! Umm the os 160 bumps like a lowrider powered nuclear fission explode in a 1.60 sized cylinder! Gobs of power no wait gob stobbers of power!!!

Hi Funfly!!!

Cant wait to fire her up! If there is an 7.5 earthquake in Tucson tomorrow. Don't tell anyone i got this thing!

Too much is just enough!

Shibby?

Hey,
Allot of practice is right. NOW I think I see the light. I just burned a gallon of fuel on Sat and am able to hold it now. When I get it sitting just right it will spin like a top. Once I go 180 I get crossed up and fall out. I'll work on that this week. I definiatly got the "3-D feel" working. So Hovering, to torque rolls - I'll practice those. what's next - Harriers?
RP

BTW, I hear that a 18-8 is the MAXIMUM size prop you can swing on that motor. As it is set slightly rich it feels awfully warm when I land. I would think a smaller prop would be like putting more gear in a car and get you out of the hole faster. You're saying to go larger?

less pitch would be like a lower gear in a car
- would pull out with more authority (or so I've heard)

Although I am not real proficient in the 3D stuff, My Giles OS 160 combo is very capable abs long as the CG is back far enough. Mine weighs in at 12lb 4 oz and has 8 oz of lead as far back as I could get it. Under the stab and on side of fuse. I have tried many props. The best bang for the buck is the regular yellow tipped Master Airscrew 18-6. I have tried a few carbon props and one or two are better but nearly triple the cost. I have tried the APC 18-6W but while it had better thrust, it didn't respond to throttle changes as quickly.
I would be real cautious trying blenders and other high G maneuvers with your Giles. I have cracked 2 wings with mine. The first time was a hard outside snap about half throttle from level flight. I heard something pop fairly loud so I landed and the sheeting was cracked on the top of the wing just outside the fuselage. The second wing I don't know what happened. I was taking it apart after a days flying and saw the same cracks as before on the bottom suface of the wing. I really want to try a blender but I'm not ready to risk trashing my Giles just yet. It does do a beautiful inverted flat spin. It's a little slow coming out though.
Hovering the Giles is a learning curve and it will torque fairly easy with the right prop. I got fairly good at hovering at the end of last year but tried the other day and didn't have much luck. If you don't work on it steady it goes away pretty quick. I've been spending too much time on my heli's and not enough on the planes lately.
Keep at it,you'll get there,,,basmntdweller

Step #1

Go to the Horizon Hobby site and read all of the 3D'n with Mike McConville series. Maybe print them out to take to the field with you.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/articles/1022.asp

Step #2

Get a 3D "beater" plane...fairly cheap, but capable. Hinge for at least 45 degree throws on tail surfaces...a little less on ailerons.

Mine's a Kyosho Cap232 60 size with a Saito 91 w/14X6. HS-425BB's on Aileron, HS-545 on Elevator, HS-605 on rudder. If you can afford a bigger bird, do it. They say the Doghouse Extreme is good for practice, too.

Step #3

Break-in the motor and tune/fly 'til RELIABLE! Just use recommended throws 'til the motor can be counted on from extended high-idle/low midrange to full throttle. During this couple of weeks, you are learning the plane as well. Practice stall/spin recovery over & over.

Step #4

Change to some cheap long servo arms (like Dubro super strength). Rudder and especially elevator - go for 45 degrees each way.

Step #5

Set up your tranny for normal rates and the 3D high rates Mike describes with a bunch of expo. Make sure you know how to find that elevator rate switch in a hurry!

Step #6

Get up really high, flip the rate switch and do what Mike said to do for each of the manuevers. All Hell will break loose, but then just release the sticks and let the nose drop while you switch to low rate elevator - then recover. You were really up there, right?

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You'll start to figure it out after a while. The freestyle videos available out there help with inspiration for recovery/transitions.

Using the plane descibed above, I was shaking like a leaf, but doing all of the moves but Hovering after the third flight (motor was already broken in).

Hovering/Torque Rolling seems to be a matter of practice, practice, practice.

Scott Kantrowitz

Yes. I learned to TR with one.

Scott,
You forgot the most important step.
BURN TONS OF GAS Nothing beats getting to the field and just doing this stuff over and over.

Hey Guys,
That's good stuff. Now if this work thing would keep from getting in the way I'd be doing great. I'll work on it this weekend... and get a few gallons of fuel
Rick

Rick, how you like your GP giles? What servos you using?

Hey Shortman,
I love the plane, it's a little light-duty, don't smack it down on the runway cause it will bust in two, but besides that, if you fly it like a plane it's great. I have 9001's in all but the rudder right now (a little underpowered I think but they work fine) and in the rudder I bought a coreless 110 dollar futaba. That one kicks! I think it's pleanty of plane for me to grow into for now.
Rick