Hello, me again :-]!
I was just wondering if Sig-4Star can make some of the 3D's manuvers like hovering\torque roll, knife edge, flat spin and ETC if I will put engine 70 of OS or SAITO (4 stroke)???

Thanks, Elad!

it's not that kind of plane. but it can be done. put counterbalanced tail surfaces like the mayhem, and keep it straight up, as it will probably wing rock at low a.o.a. I will have to do one and find out...

Hi.
I think that I'll buy the ARF so I can't put counterbalance. Or maybe I can put, but for doing taht I'll have to cut a part of the elevator stabilizer and stick it to the elevator surface.
And I don't understand what do you mean in:"and keep it straight up, as it will probably wing rock at low a.o.a."

Ha! I laugh at you! I have one of those planes, and it is not worth your time and effort. I have a counterbalanced rudder on mine, and it'll knife-edge loop, but I don't think It'll hover too well. What motor you runnin? I got a TT Pro 46, and with a 12.25x3.75 funfly, it has unlimited vertical. If you feel the need, go ahead, but prepare to be disappointed.

Jake

Hey, Im from Israel aswell.

Anyway, the Sig 4Star isnt meant for 3D.. its just for regular aerobatics. Ive seen you fly with Dor in Dovrat a couple of weeks ago and I dont think you can hover this bird. Why dont you try an OMP profile or a UCD or a Funtana?

Hi!
Listen, I know that the 4star wasn't built to 3D's, but it'll be my second airplane after the trainer, and I thought that after the trainer I'll buy Top Cap or an other 'basic 3D airplane' ("3D trainer"), but lots of people suggested me to buy a 'second airplane' (low wing and nose\tail wheel). They said that it'll be a bit difficault to me to start with 3D right after the trainer, even if I'll fly with Dual Rate and bla bla bla.... So I dicided to buy a second airplane and then Top Cap, or something like that, and I thought, maybe the 'second airplane' could make a bit 3D's with the right engine and low wight (when I mean "a bit 3D's", I mean that a friend of mine succeed to hover with my trainer and to do knife edge, so right, it's not like doing it with Top Cap but he succeed, and he flies 3D very very good, so I thought if he could make it with my trainer why I can't do it with the 4star???).

Do you think I should buy TopCap and fly it with dual rate and an instuctor (my friend), and low movement of the elev and I'll train a lot on the sim (Aero-Flight, I don't have it yet, cause I need to buy a transmitter, and it'll be soon, but I'll get AeroFlight for free) and bla bla bla...? Because I know lots of people that after the trainer they bought Hot Hots of Top Cap or things like that...


Thanks, Elad.

I'm sorry that I'm make here a privite conversation but it,ll be the last time (and the first).
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I was there with Andrea, I fly with him here where I live. I heard about dovrat closing.. really sucks but there are way too many people there.
Anyway, you will be surprised with what a trainer can do with the right pilot. Dont try to 3D right after the trainer.. I suggest you take a Sig 4Star or something similar and learning more simple aerobatics.

Which sim do you have?

hey, thunderbird; if it has power and rudder authority it WILL hover. I routinely hover my kadet seniorita, back it down, and touch the tail. But it is not easy. you have to keep the nose almost straight up. if it falls over backwards you crash.

an o.m.p. is a better hover choice, but a 4-star a better second airplane; there is a lot more to learn than hover. get the basics down first. I've been flying since about 1976, and just started trying to hover 3 years ago. just now got to where I can put it where I want in hover. plenty to learn.

I think the best 2nd plane there is is a 4-star 40 with a saito 72 golden knight on it. but that's just me! and with my limited experience, what do I know?

Yeah, get the sig 4 star with the saito 72.. when you master the 4 star you can use the engine in any 40 size plane you want.

My buddy had a Four-Star 40 that he built from a kit. He enlarged the elevator and rudder and added a counter balance to each. It was powered by a 46SF. It could hover, flat-spin, knife-edge very well. Alot of people were impressed by just how well it could do these manuvers. So with a few mods here and there it should be able to do what you want! Even if you keep it stock your going to have a very good flying plane, which can do all standard aerobatics with ease. You can always enlarge the control surfaces after you flown it for a while!

Hi.
First of all thanks for the replies. I think I'll buy the 4Star kit and do what you said, I'll put counter balance on the elev and rudder and maybe I'll make them a bit bigger. After I'll done building it I'll fly it with 46FX and then I'll put Saito 72 (I've been told that the GK is just like the regular one, it don't gives anything).

Thanks, Elad!

sounds like a good plan! the guys that told you the golden knight was the same was wrong. for one thing, the 72 g.k. has the velocity stack. the standard didn't unless they changed it. and the g.k. runs cooler. the black coating dissipates heat better, which is important if you fly in florida, or somewhere hot, like maybe israel or something... I hover a lot of stuff on the 72 g.k. w/ a master airscrew 13-6 scimitar, which suits the engine well. now, I'm not saying the silver saitos are bad, I'm just a g.k. fan; currently own 2 72's, a 100, and a 180- all g.k. the 72 is great on something extras and omp 540's, and my profile ultimate with a scratch built fuselage.

on the 46 on a 4-star, I'd try an 11-5 apc; big enough disc to hover, and still move it along pretty fast. that's what I'm running on my seniorita, and have used on most of my 2-stroke mid sized planes.

again, that's just what I do, hope it helps!

Hi.
About the GK, my friend have it (180) on his Diablo2000 (of JR Models), and he told me that there is no difrenece between the GK and the silver (he have 180GK, 150,120, 91), and in a RC forum in Israel an other guy said that to. So what do you think that there is in the GK and there isn't in the silver? More RPM? Higher torque? Less engine cuts?
BTW in Israel it's very hot. I was in florida 3 or 2 years ago at july and it's really hot there and the dampness is very high, it's a kind of tropic climate. But in Israel it's hotter, in the summer the temps are 41C-49C and there are sometimes extremely changes that the temps are 50C plus. Anyway, remeber that the 4Star has no engine cowl so it can get cool air, but if in the future I'll use this engine (and I think I will) to a plane with cowling, you'r attitude (about that the engine runs cooler cause it's black) is good. I will see what are the price differences between the GK and the silver and then decide, cause I'm a bit short of price (I don't really know how to say that in Eng ). BTW, thats why I'll put at the start 46FX (its the engine I have on my trainer) and just then buy 72.

Anyway thanks! You halped me a lot! Elad.

4 Stars can be coaxed to do a little 3D. I have a 120 sized one and I hover it. It weighs 13 pounds and pulls out with a 3000 turning a 19x8wide. I havent been able to maintain a good harrier or elevator (could be my skill level). I can get the plane into a harrier attitude, just cant hold it. I can get a sorta-harrier-slow knife edge flight fly by; thats about it.

I have a 4* 60. I built a bigger rudder for it but never got around to changing the elevators.I have worked the balance point about 3/4" behind the recomended point. It hovers very easy. Dosn't have enough elevator to do all the 3D stuff but does make a great second plane and you can get started on some 3D with it. With bigger elevators it may do more.Make sure you double bevel your control surfaces so you can get 3D throws.

Randy

Start out flying it at the recomended CG then move it back slowly after you get good with the plane.

Randy

almost any plane will 3-d providing the wing loading is low and the throws are big. I have a video with Quique Zomensini (spellin?) torque rolling a 1/3 scale super cub. I had a thunder tiger lazy cub with an OS wankel rotary .30 size engine that hovered suprizingly well. I do like the idea of getting the 4* as a second airplane. Great airplane. In my opinion if you build it as light as possible and enlarge the elevator and rudder by adding counter balances it will 3-d. You might modify the control surface while you buid it and keep the throws low. As you get better you can move the CG back and add more throw. I dont see any reason why this wouldnt 3-d. Oh, everyone is right. This plane wasnt designed to 3d. WHO CARES. Many planes now adays the are designed to 3-d dont do it well (Funtana, Fun World 3-d, Fun star 3d, even the ucando suffers at serval manuvers.) I think if you build it light and right it should be just as good as those, especially for a 3d trainer. Good luck

Hi.
I decided to buy the kit of the 4Star (40) and do what you all said, I'll modify the control surfaces (elevator and rudder) and will do couter balances. But still I have a question, how should I do it? The kit contains the exact length of the beams to build the control surfaces. So what should I do? Should I buy a longer balsa beams and then make a bigger control surface? And how should I make the counter balance? Should I need to take part of the stabilizer and stick it to the control surface?

Thanks, Elad.

Sorry pal but you are going to be very disappointed trying to get a four star to 3D. I bashed two 4* 60's and went to extremes on one. Doubled rudder size, changed hinge line on the elev with more than 60% control surface, also added counter balancers, left out one wing bay and built light as possible. Came out a little under seven pounds with a saito 100. Ailerons were left alone as they run full length and provide more than enough. CG was set 3/4'' behind reward recommended range.
It would hang on the prop easy and do knife edge loops but the buck stops there. It would not do FLAT spins upright or inverted. It would not harrier at all, elevators stunk, water falls were no good and you are not going to get a knife edge spin either.
Go to the kit building forum and search for "kit bash 4*" as many folks have done different mods to theirs.
My advice, don't waste your time/money trying to turn a family sedan into a hotrod just fly the little 40 till your bored and then get a better plane for 3D. You could add to the tail surfaces to help hovering but just don't expect much more.

I say go for the mods. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't...but at least you'd have a 4* that can perform better and teach you more than the regular.
Good Luck!

Hi.
I don't think that you know what I meant. I meant that I want to buy the 4Star as a second airplane, and I thought, why not trying to do with it some 3D maneuvers? Then I asked here if it can, and the most of the people here told me that it can do a bit 3D. Later, after I'll be more spetz (lol-my nick. BTW it had to be "-Spetz_Naz-"), and will have experience in 3D (again, a bit experience, or maybe not bit, because I'll buy a sim transmitter and will practice at the simulator) I'll buy TopCap or Edge funfly.

P.S.
Nobody answerd my question, so:

"I decided to buy the kit of the 4Star (40) and do what you all said, I'll modify the control surfaces (elevator and rudder) and will do couter balances. But still I have a question, how should I do it? The kit contains the exact length of the beams to build the control surfaces. So what should I do? Should I buy a longer balsa beams and then make a bigger control surface? And how should I make the counter balance? Should I need to take part of the stabilizer and stick it to the control surface?

Thanks, Elad."

yeah, cutting off about 1-1/2" of each side of stab, and glue to elevator. bevel both stab and elevator. same with rudder. use stock throws at first, then work your way up. it will do as much 3d as you will be able for 6 months or so, at least! and about the guy who changed his and says it will not hover; it just might not be the plane! I routinely hover my seniorita all over the place, knife edge both ways, touch the tail, etc. posted a pic, and a lot of doubters. but it does; it just took me over a year to LEARN HOW!! here is the pic again;

Re-read my post freddy, I said it would hover easy. There's alot more to 3D than just hovering.

there is? no offense meant, buddy! did you move the c.g. back until it spun?