3D Frenzy at Joe Nall
05-21-2004, 10:39 AM
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RE: 3D Frenzy at Joe Nall
Helioo1 -
Thanks for the excellent explanation and taking the time to do it. I understand and was not bashing the event per se, I just know with that many people and all that activity that it is hard to control who is doing what and when... I would have a hard time risking my planes in that environment, but that's me. I get nervous when there are 3 planes in the air at my own field!
I think you all did a great job, and you are right - I was not there to witness it, so I did not see the effort behind the scenes. The only "facts" I have unfortunately are the reports of midairs, radio hits, shoot downs, 3Ders out of control and whatever chaos people who were there perceive... there are always two sides to a story.
I will go next year for sure!
DP
Thanks for the excellent explanation and taking the time to do it. I understand and was not bashing the event per se, I just know with that many people and all that activity that it is hard to control who is doing what and when... I would have a hard time risking my planes in that environment, but that's me. I get nervous when there are 3 planes in the air at my own field!
I think you all did a great job, and you are right - I was not there to witness it, so I did not see the effort behind the scenes. The only "facts" I have unfortunately are the reports of midairs, radio hits, shoot downs, 3Ders out of control and whatever chaos people who were there perceive... there are always two sides to a story.
I will go next year for sure!
DP
05-21-2004, 12:44 PM
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RE: 3D Frenzy at Joe Nall
I have read a couple threads mentioning this 14 year old boy crashing other peoples planes at the Joe nall event.
Am I the only one who is wondering why people let this kid fly their planes? Especially if the story of the yak is true. After spending so much time repairing it, why would you let this id fly it again?
Im a generous guy, but gee whiz.
Taxman
Am I the only one who is wondering why people let this kid fly their planes? Especially if the story of the yak is true. After spending so much time repairing it, why would you let this id fly it again?
Im a generous guy, but gee whiz.
Taxman
05-21-2004, 01:14 PM
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RE: 3D Frenzy at Joe Nall
DP,
Please do make plans to come next year, I can assure you that you have never seen anything like it. To put it simply, it is RC heaven and you will be made to feel at home. If you want to fly, great, if you want to just take a week and immerse yourself in the leading techonology of the RC world it is all available to you. If you just want to camp and be with your friends at a beautiful facility and enjoy the lake, sceneary and hospitality, I can not think of a better place to visit. The Joe Nall is truly the one event that should be on most peoples calanders.
Tax,
In reference to the young man you mention (16), we all hope that he has learned some valuable lessons from the past week. It is very hard to second guess why anyone does anything, and I am sure that all of the people involved are asking themselves the same questions. To ask why after the fact, is a moot issue, as all anyone can do is learn from their mistakes. It does no good to hash them out in a forum like this, as it has to do with personal choices and is not for the public to judge. The story of the Yak is true, and only the people involved can answer your questions, if they choose to do so. It is refreshing to see that people at least have some respect for this young man as to not drag his name through the threads, as I am sure that what has transpired has done enough damage on it's own.
Please do make plans to come next year, I can assure you that you have never seen anything like it. To put it simply, it is RC heaven and you will be made to feel at home. If you want to fly, great, if you want to just take a week and immerse yourself in the leading techonology of the RC world it is all available to you. If you just want to camp and be with your friends at a beautiful facility and enjoy the lake, sceneary and hospitality, I can not think of a better place to visit. The Joe Nall is truly the one event that should be on most peoples calanders.
Tax,
In reference to the young man you mention (16), we all hope that he has learned some valuable lessons from the past week. It is very hard to second guess why anyone does anything, and I am sure that all of the people involved are asking themselves the same questions. To ask why after the fact, is a moot issue, as all anyone can do is learn from their mistakes. It does no good to hash them out in a forum like this, as it has to do with personal choices and is not for the public to judge. The story of the Yak is true, and only the people involved can answer your questions, if they choose to do so. It is refreshing to see that people at least have some respect for this young man as to not drag his name through the threads, as I am sure that what has transpired has done enough damage on it's own.
05-23-2004, 07:58 PM
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RE: 3D Frenzy at Joe Nall
And NOW. . .some pics of the "Profile Phrenzy" tht's in the works.
A few notes . .there are TWO wing tube locations so that you cna move the wing fore-aft to easier set cg
The receiver sits inside the profile fuselage, between the wings. Note the rudder servo (under wing) and throttle servo wires installed through internal tunnels to get to the receiver bay. Right behind the engine is another "hole". This is to locate a Sullivan "slanted Oval" narrow profile fuel tank of 12 ounces. It will be only 1/4" wider than the fuselage on each side. . Makes for a nice narrow, and neat, installation. On the forward bottom of the fuselage is a bay for a 2100 ma receiver battery. Two 84111 servos reside in the tail, to power the full-floating and individually controllable (yes, they can go opposite directions) stabilators. One servo per side, two channels on the Rx. . imagine the possibilities. The fuselage is able to stand up, even with all the side weight of the OS. 1.60 and muffler, because the angle-aluminum gear mounting plates are flush with the bottom of the fuselage. he two CF tubes, one per side, not only stiffen the fuselage and give it strength, they also serve duty as guides for the rudder pull-pull cables/rods.
This "prototype", so far, is 5 lbs 8 ounces, with engine, 3 servos, 5-ounce 5735 rudder servo, and gear plate in place. The planes overall length is going to be 81", Span is 80.5", wing area is 2000 sq in., and expected overall weight should come in right at 11-11.5 lbs. A bolt-on lower fuselage "strake" will be available that will be like the ones on the full-bodied Frenzy, giving an additional 3" of fuselage height from about mid-fuselage forward, for improved KE flight. By slightly widening the motor-mount hole, you can fit a BME-50 on the nose. . No such thing as too much power, IMHO.
Compare this to a OMP Edge540 Profile, at 71" long, 80.625" span, 1632" of area, and an overall wight of 11+ lbs and "normal" control surfaces, and things hanging off the fuselage in all sorts of places. A typical "Profile" design.
A few notes . .there are TWO wing tube locations so that you cna move the wing fore-aft to easier set cg
The receiver sits inside the profile fuselage, between the wings. Note the rudder servo (under wing) and throttle servo wires installed through internal tunnels to get to the receiver bay. Right behind the engine is another "hole". This is to locate a Sullivan "slanted Oval" narrow profile fuel tank of 12 ounces. It will be only 1/4" wider than the fuselage on each side. . Makes for a nice narrow, and neat, installation. On the forward bottom of the fuselage is a bay for a 2100 ma receiver battery. Two 84111 servos reside in the tail, to power the full-floating and individually controllable (yes, they can go opposite directions) stabilators. One servo per side, two channels on the Rx. . imagine the possibilities. The fuselage is able to stand up, even with all the side weight of the OS. 1.60 and muffler, because the angle-aluminum gear mounting plates are flush with the bottom of the fuselage. he two CF tubes, one per side, not only stiffen the fuselage and give it strength, they also serve duty as guides for the rudder pull-pull cables/rods.
This "prototype", so far, is 5 lbs 8 ounces, with engine, 3 servos, 5-ounce 5735 rudder servo, and gear plate in place. The planes overall length is going to be 81", Span is 80.5", wing area is 2000 sq in., and expected overall weight should come in right at 11-11.5 lbs. A bolt-on lower fuselage "strake" will be available that will be like the ones on the full-bodied Frenzy, giving an additional 3" of fuselage height from about mid-fuselage forward, for improved KE flight. By slightly widening the motor-mount hole, you can fit a BME-50 on the nose. . No such thing as too much power, IMHO.
Compare this to a OMP Edge540 Profile, at 71" long, 80.625" span, 1632" of area, and an overall wight of 11+ lbs and "normal" control surfaces, and things hanging off the fuselage in all sorts of places. A typical "Profile" design.
05-24-2004, 10:25 AM
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RE: 3D Frenzy at Joe Nall
ORIGINAL: Kris^
I just want to make it clear to the "Idea thieves" in this industry. . . I'll take it VERY personally if they try to rip this off. Yes, the full flying stab was done before .. the dorsal/ventral full-flying rudder has not, however, and the shape is . . . well. . it just IS. .
Take a look at an add for the Tuff Flight 4D. Just remember that this is a hobby for most, and if an individual makes a airplane that resembles yours you should be flattered. If someone makes a copy and tries to sell it they should held responsible. Tom
I just want to make it clear to the "Idea thieves" in this industry. . . I'll take it VERY personally if they try to rip this off. Yes, the full flying stab was done before .. the dorsal/ventral full-flying rudder has not, however, and the shape is . . . well. . it just IS. .
Take a look at an add for the Tuff Flight 4D. Just remember that this is a hobby for most, and if an individual makes a airplane that resembles yours you should be flattered. If someone makes a copy and tries to sell it they should held responsible. Tom
05-24-2004, 04:28 PM
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RE: 3D Frenzy at Joe Nall
Hi Kris, the guys here can see my photos from Joe Nall at this Fotki site. The Frenzy is among them.
http://public.fotki.com/benlanterman...ll_flyin_2004/
The Frenzy in particular is here and the next page. Excuse the rotten Frenzy photos since the sky was heavily overcast and made for terrible shooting.
http://public.fotki.com/benlanterman...04/page10.html
The Frenzy was neat but the fuselage shape is not new. The SuperStar by Wolfgang Matt some 25 or more years ago had the same fish shape. It was a 60 powered pattern design to fit the rules at that time. I flew one for several years and it was one of the smoothest airplane I have ever flown. Of course the empasis was on smooth, non snapping maneuvers. The only reason he was not world champ with it is was not the fault of the fuselage. In the same time frame a design appearing in RC Modeler featured an all flying tail - again a 60 powered pattern airplane called an F-9 (I believe). He also used a balloon tank to get consistent runs. It was a very jet fighter looking airplane and placed high in at the Nats around that time.
Even before that there was a design from Sweden (Stephenson I think) that had a design with a deeper fuselage that is amost identical to the Frenzy but the pilot was not as good as Matt. Fish shapes were big back then.
So don't beat anyone up. None of the ideas is new, like most aerodynamic things most have been tried before :-)
By the way if you are lucky your Frenzy should make it to the final article. I am still trying to recover from talking to you two!!!
http://public.fotki.com/benlanterman...ll_flyin_2004/
The Frenzy in particular is here and the next page. Excuse the rotten Frenzy photos since the sky was heavily overcast and made for terrible shooting.
http://public.fotki.com/benlanterman...04/page10.html
The Frenzy was neat but the fuselage shape is not new. The SuperStar by Wolfgang Matt some 25 or more years ago had the same fish shape. It was a 60 powered pattern design to fit the rules at that time. I flew one for several years and it was one of the smoothest airplane I have ever flown. Of course the empasis was on smooth, non snapping maneuvers. The only reason he was not world champ with it is was not the fault of the fuselage. In the same time frame a design appearing in RC Modeler featured an all flying tail - again a 60 powered pattern airplane called an F-9 (I believe). He also used a balloon tank to get consistent runs. It was a very jet fighter looking airplane and placed high in at the Nats around that time.
Even before that there was a design from Sweden (Stephenson I think) that had a design with a deeper fuselage that is amost identical to the Frenzy but the pilot was not as good as Matt. Fish shapes were big back then.
So don't beat anyone up. None of the ideas is new, like most aerodynamic things most have been tried before :-)
By the way if you are lucky your Frenzy should make it to the final article. I am still trying to recover from talking to you two!!!
05-24-2004, 07:35 PM
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RE: 3D Frenzy at Joe Nall
Hey Ben, thanks for the info. I used to fly U-control back in the early 70s' and scratched out a VERY similar looking plane witha K&B .40 on it for Stunt flying. It had the same basic lines, but more normal control surfaces, complete with linked flaps/elevators. It used a 60" Pattern wing and flew beautifully, iven if it was only in circles.
My main "concern" about idea thieves is that there are companies out there who have done ripoffs of other popular models, merely changing the dimensions a hair to call it their own "design". This, to me, is patently dishonest. Now that the world has seen the Frenzy in action, I fully expect for someone to copy the concept. That's why I'm also developing a "Phrenzy" , basically a Profile version of the Frenzy (wanted to call it a Pfrenzy, but that would be ripping off the Price Pfister faucets.
)
Ynot and I have gone over a number of ideas and strategies, and I've contacted a number of suppliers and outlets for parts and possible wood cutting facilities. We are planning to offer the Frenzy, and Phrenzy, in Kit form, with critical mechanisms (such as the full-floating stabilator) pre-built, hinged and reay to install. Right now I'm doing another 2-3 prototypes, finalizing the design and getting a better wing into the mix. Ynot and I will be keeping these forums informed of the progress of this endeavor. Feedback, and ideas, are always welcome.
I'd like to invite some input from graphics designers for a finalized logo and marketing ideas. Think SHARK!!! in some way or fashion.
Slogans we've considered include "Why fly when you can Feed? Join the Frenzy!!" , a wing-span wide picture of a smoke trail wth a biting shark at the end of it, about to chomp on a fleeing profile funfly, with the phrase underneath .. "You can run, but you can't get away. . . Join the Frenzy" Others are not quite repeatable in mixed company, but equallly funny.
So, it's in the works. The only thing slowing it down is having to have a REAL job, the need to sleep occasionally, and trying to keep my sanity. Any ideas anyone would like to put forward, or advice as to good sources of parts, lazer cutting and other ideas, would be very welcome. PM if you'd like to give some advice. I'll be very thankful.
My main "concern" about idea thieves is that there are companies out there who have done ripoffs of other popular models, merely changing the dimensions a hair to call it their own "design". This, to me, is patently dishonest. Now that the world has seen the Frenzy in action, I fully expect for someone to copy the concept. That's why I'm also developing a "Phrenzy" , basically a Profile version of the Frenzy (wanted to call it a Pfrenzy, but that would be ripping off the Price Pfister faucets.
)Ynot and I have gone over a number of ideas and strategies, and I've contacted a number of suppliers and outlets for parts and possible wood cutting facilities. We are planning to offer the Frenzy, and Phrenzy, in Kit form, with critical mechanisms (such as the full-floating stabilator) pre-built, hinged and reay to install. Right now I'm doing another 2-3 prototypes, finalizing the design and getting a better wing into the mix. Ynot and I will be keeping these forums informed of the progress of this endeavor. Feedback, and ideas, are always welcome.
I'd like to invite some input from graphics designers for a finalized logo and marketing ideas. Think SHARK!!! in some way or fashion.
Slogans we've considered include "Why fly when you can Feed? Join the Frenzy!!" , a wing-span wide picture of a smoke trail wth a biting shark at the end of it, about to chomp on a fleeing profile funfly, with the phrase underneath .. "You can run, but you can't get away. . . Join the Frenzy" Others are not quite repeatable in mixed company, but equallly funny.
So, it's in the works. The only thing slowing it down is having to have a REAL job, the need to sleep occasionally, and trying to keep my sanity. Any ideas anyone would like to put forward, or advice as to good sources of parts, lazer cutting and other ideas, would be very welcome. PM if you'd like to give some advice. I'll be very thankful.
