I've been working on them on AFP sim and with a profile at the field. I saw some good video instruction at FlyingCirkus.com but I'd love to hear other guys tips. Practice is obviously the best tip but any other suggestions on making them really smooth and on axis?

I've heard that mixing out the coupling during knife edge flight is important to getting it smooth and axial.

Good point....especially with an airplane that tucks really hard, like a 60 UCanDO. Although I'm not practicing with the UCanDo...

Rolling harriers look so cool...keep the tips coming!

think of it as a rolling circle (if your going to do a rolling harrier circle, IMO there easyer) but fly really slowly and use more exadurated stick movements. eventually it'll click and you'll get into a rythm.

good luck
Ian

ive been working on my rolling harriers for a few weeks now and it is definetly a building process. You get one or two the first few times you try but you also blow a lot with incorrct entry or the wrong input. Then you go out one day and start stringing several rotations together before falling off and you arent blowing the entry as often. (this is where i am at the moment). then you will go out and start rolling as much as you want but maybe not in the direction you want. It is all in the timing and that only gets better as you attempt them more. Mine got better once i concentrated on doing what ever it took to keep the nose up in a high alpha attitude and realized that i was not working the rudder as hard in one direction as i was another. It also helps that my flying buddy would watch me and would try to observe what I was doing wrong/right. I don't think mixing out coupling in the harrier is as important because you are working the inputs quite hard, and fast, usually with the aileron pinned to max in one direction. Mixing out the coupling, however, is important for rolling circles but you are carring more speed with less inputs.

If you don't mix in the rudder to elevator coupling, you will just learn how to it without (the mixing). It just might be a little trickier, but your mind will adapt and make them smooth. Practice practice practice.

I've spent many many hours on sims and at the field working on this and I think one thing that helped it click for me was concentrating on one of the four stick movements...

I mean watch the plane rolling and go through the stick movements and always reset the timing in your head when the top of the wing crosses that threshhold where you switch and put in elevator up. (You will invariably get the timing off at some point around the 1 revolution mark while learning. If you dont "reset" the timing of stick movements, then it gets totally wrong within a revolution or so to where you're steering it into the ground instead of holding the nose up.)

Then go through the other motions and reset again when the wing is coming up again... if you don't have some reset point in mind on every revolution to help with turning or maintaining that nose up attitude its just impossible to keep up with timing EVERY motion, its just too fast. You WILL get behind or ahead, so concentrate on one, then make the others smoother later when you're able to keep up... if that all makes sense.

BTW, I do the four independant motions like that video out there someone did on Real Flight G2... not like the Flying Cirkus one where they move both sticks at the same time... since I learned one way seems weird to join both movements but maybe its easier and it still looks good...

If a person can fly inverted, knife edge, and upright, he has the foundation to learn high alpha rolls/rolling harriers. A rolling circle using just the elevator is what I learned first on a sig se. I think this is a good place to start. I later got a profile and started using the rudder. The rudder is what is going to keep it looking axial. Roll to the left. Throttle control is really important also in maintaing a high alpha attitude. If your control throw on the elevator and rudder is too low, you will just be doing a rolling circle with a high roll rate. The good thing about high alpha rolls is that when you botch almost any 3d manuver, you can go into a high alpha roll and make it look like it's what you wanted

I'm repeating some of what others have said, but here's my 2 cents worth:

1: It's a timing thing. I find them easier to do rolling to the right, and going counter-clockwise. Just pick the directions that are easiest for you. Starting from right side up, I go left, down, right, up and so forth.

2: Learn how to do a regular rolling circle smoothly first. Make it so that you can do the same circle, at the same altitude, same speed, and the same roll rate every time. Now, pull the power back some, and increase the roll rate. Continue doing this untill the plane has to pitch up to maintain altitude. Now you can practice getting slower, and lower untill you have it down.

3. Never do a harrier roll based on timing alone. Always be alert of the way the airplane is pointed, and which input will be required. You need to have this down to a reflex, however make sure that you dont get your reflexes out of sinc. When I was learning to do it, I cant tell you how many times I got rolling too fast and either missed an input, and then gave it 90 degrees or more too late, or just got out of sequence. If you get one step ahead or behind the airplane, then you can be in a mess of touble if you are low.

4. Don't be afraid to back off the ailerons, or give them more to make it comfortable.

5. Although not neccesary, a good knife edge mix helps alot.

on my smaller planes I like opposite flaperons mixed to elevator about 30% at slow high angles of attack this increases wing lift while upright and inverted. now this will decrease your roll rate since ailerons are being used for two purposes. I like to roll as slow as possible and bring the ariplane to a stop while rolling in place, this requires max aileron, rudder and elevator inputs using the throttle to maintain possition. as you fly out you need less aileron input to maintain roll rate. a key to rolling harriers is being able to control your airplane with very small stick movement or full stick movement when required. good practice is to set your simulator at extreamly slow rates where you are required to move the sticks full to fly airplane, then switch to extreame high rates and learn to fly with very slight sick movement.

Slow rolls, Slow rolls and more slow rolls....

as your plane rolls, tell yourself, knife, push, knife, pull, knife, push, knife, pull....... and that will help with your rythm.. the rest, is all about burning fuel and using the sim. Oh, and get a 40%, that makes it easy too

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I've been doing pretty well on the sim using the method that FlyingCirkus.com suggests where you are giving rudder and elevator inputs simultaneously. They say to do this and first learn the rolling harrier circle. To straighten it out and make it look smooth axially, I've found that practice makes the timing of the rudder vs elevator get smoother. Also, throttle variation helps to smooth it out and keep the same angle of attack. I'm not sure the Flying Cirkus method is the best for a perfect harrier roll but I just couldnt keep up fast enough doing each input individually....

Good tip, Jon... sorry I didn't get a chance to talk to you at Cinci IMAC contest.

Hey Sam - Same here. Whenever I looked to see where you were you were judging. We'll have to talk at the next one!