From what I can see at our local club, more and more guys starting off in the hobby are opting to begin flying with small 3D planes vs actual Trainers. Reason being, is apparantly, many of the 3D planes have excellent slow speed handling characteristics due to the large wing areas, and they are very reasonably priced.
It seems that the Stik types are getting very popular and even some of the UCD's and similar for starting off. I actually watched one guy with a trainer (Tower 60 I think), and a 3D (Razzle 3D), and the razzle could actually fly slower and more controlled than the Tower model.
Loaded up, they were also about the same price, which is why I just picked one up to start playing around with. Neat little plane. And the price was hard to beat.

But, there are many like it on the market, ARF's and kits. I can see in the near future that 3D planes may get designed and built to a point where they will be easily prefered by beginners instead trainers for their flight characteristics.

Has anyone else noticed this?

Patriot

I think the only advantage that a trainer plane has is its dihedral. As you said and I can now attest as well, the profile planes have incredible slow speed stability. I pulled out an old Goldberg Tiger .25 that I once flew shortly after soloing. I was letting a guy I work with fly it on buddy box.

It was tremendously more difficult to land in the confine space I was flying over behind our office. (Yes I have two planes sitting by my desk right now waiting to step out the door and fly). I had to keep so much airspeed in my turns that it made it very difficult to hit my tiny runway space.

That being said...A trainer still holds some good features because it attempts to upright itself in banks and I think this can help a beginner out. Although my profile will fly at half the speed, it goes in the exact direction it is poited. I don't know how it will all pan out, but I agree with you that I think most people could easily learn to fly with a profile like my Edge 540P.

Matt

Yes, the only advantage of a trainer is that their stability is much greater. But most of them lack the control authority to recover from really difficult situations, like a stall 3 feet above the ground when coming in for a landing too slow. Even if you got a 90 engine on a 40 size trainer it won't recover in time due to the small elevator authority.

Now, with a profile things are a lot different. Although they are not as stable as a trainer, they are much more "controllable", can almost stop in the air (in the horizontal position....) , land on your feet, takeoff after 5 feet runs and so on. They may seem a little sensitive at first, but nothing that a dual rate, some expo (computer radios are very cheap and popular nowadays, basic 4 channel non-computer radios are for the real stingy ones) and a nice instructor helping won't solve. As you progress, you go increasing the throws, like leaning out an engine after each run during break-in, and after a while you got a wild 3D machine on your hands.

Of course, if what you want to do is fly more "scale-like", then the "conventional" types are more recommended. But for someone with 3D in mind, there's no point in expending extra money buying a plane that won't do what you want. Save that for buying a replacemet when you crash (with a trainer or not, you will crash somewhere along the path, no point in hiding the truth). Of course the semi-scale planes like Funtana and such are not really recommended for begginers, because not only they lack the positive stability, they lack the slow speed handling also... So they are better as second planes.

Just my 2 cents though....

great observation
You guys beat me to it

i think you all are right on
Check the hype 3d even though a bit pricey you can fall asleep with the tx in you hand if its set on low rates
My landings are slower than a crawl almost stop especially in a wind, adding a short burst of power just before the touch down to prevent a stall.

You are right Patriot, and why not start with a 3d plane. The rush often experinced by new fliers to get a second "more aerobatic" plane because your boring trainer got boring is gone. Get a good 3D, do some serious sim time, then go and learn with an instructor and your the cats pajamas. IMO

Rrragman

Yep, I have noticed it for a while now.

I'll let anyone fly anything they have. Had one guy, learned on a 40 sized Corsair. And he did, sorta.

I agree 100% with a trainer, however I have two I guys who after 2 or 3 flights on a Nexstar, they got Zagi's and did alot of trial an error. Got one on a Stick now and the other has 4 3D planes. All broken.

I enjoy flying others planes and helping set them up 3D. Pains me to watch them destoy them all and I gotta say it, "Told ya"

Actually, there's one guy at the clubwho got a 3d plane and two sets of wings. He just bought an extra set for about $50. The extra set he assembled with a little dihedral, and set the engine to peak with a little less power. I swear, the thing flew just like a trainer, even better in some respects.
Then, when he got better, he just attached the original wing, and dialed up the high rates, and is fine. Sure he crashes once in a while, Heck, we all do. (Even the really good pilots).

My pont is, buying the extra wing was alot cheaper than a whole plane, and the setup really did work very well. I was quite surprised.

Now that I think about it. His wings had two servos, and he even dialed in a little flaperon. That thing could come in so slow and stable, you could darn near grab it out of the air.

Patriot

I am all for 3D planes as trainers but there are some negative things to look at as well. 3D planes are built super light and cant take the abuse that the "tank style" trainers can.

As far as trainers not being able to get as slow then your not flying the right trainer. A Sig Senior can go in REVERSE in a 10mph wind and be landed in less than 10ft of runway in the hands of a decent pilot.

*just for the record I hate flying trainers and wouldnt trade my 35% for a trailer full of trainers.

Southern, notice you said the Sig Senior can do those things in the hands of a "good pilot". People first learning are not good pilots. And in all honesty, I agre trainers can generally take a little more beating, but a properly built 3D can as well. But hey, a beginner has to learn how to fix his planes anyway right?

Patriot

One thing though, lots of 3d planes fly much easier BUT you cant beat a trainer for toughness and durability.

Take a Ready2, topcat and ABS plastic moulded fully, you cannot crash it, you can cartwheel crash it and all you get is a small dent. Take a 3d plane and you're sushi.

I think it would be better to learn the harder way with a trainer, sometimes the harder way is better because when it comes to the easy things you are synched.

But hey, whatever turns you on.[X(]

Shahid.

(RCU! why is it whenever I type p ussycat which of course is describing the qualities of an airplane, you **** the p ussy! I am not swearing geeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!)

I like Sushi. LOL

Actually, I prefer a good steak.

Patriot

Gimme spaghetti anyday

Only thing is 3D funflys such as the Hype can lead you to develop bad habits, such as pulling turns ultra sharply ans slowly without worry of stalling e.t.c

A trainer that teaches you to avoid stalls and flicks will make trasnitioning to a 40 sized pattern model or freestyle model a much easier process.

Luke, you are right about that in many ways, turning is something beginners need to do controlled, that's kind of why you would need to set the throws on low low low rates.

You know, there's a trainer I once flew that could turn on a dime, and didn't stall very easily, and if it did, it would drop perfectly straight down, and recover pretty much on its own. One good feature about trainers.

Patriot