Please don't hover or do aerobatics in the landing and take-off area, this prevents others from taking off or landing while you are looking up your own planes tailfeathers. If your field has a typical racetrack pattern , please do your thing in the middle and let others fly the racetrack. I know you pay a lot for the privelege of hovering etc., but others want to fly too.

Thanks in advance

Here we go again........

Who is he talking to? How many people from his club visit this forum, none ? one ?
We have 70 club members and NONE of them know what a race track pattern is. Not a problem for good pilots.

We have 80% pattern flyers and 20% fun flyers. Hovering in the middle works for the most part.

I have said it a million times. Its all about tolerance.
Tolerate all aspects of the sport / hobby. Even if its something your not into.

If you know a 3D'er is about to go fly and no one else is up why not let him have the runway to himself for 10 mins.

If you are a 3D'er and you see that a guy is about to buddy box someone why not wait till they are done.

If you fly fixed wings and see a heli guy going up, let him have the field for a few mins.

Whats the big deal?

I am not saying that only one type of flying should be done at the same time but is it that hard to wait 10 mins and do what you want to?

Look.....when people want to fly their hobby...let them.....when u want to fly your hobby...they should let you....or at our field we have room for both so its not that big of deal....AND I SEE YOU NON- 3DR'S TRYING 3D MOVES.....SO DON'T SAY U HATE IT....JUST CAUSE U CAN'T DO IT!!!
and ditto what wgeffon said.....

I agree with the tolerance. Many times I have waited for some one to complete the pattern before I have gone up. I have flown Pattern, Sport and Fun Fly. I also am instructing my two Sons my brother and his Son. We all have to be tolerant. We all have to share the airspace.

At our busy So CA field we have five pilot stations and usually three flying at a time. When somebody insists on doing 3D stuff in the take off and landing area nobody else can fly, period. If you are a good aerobatic pilot you should be able to do 3D and hovering just as well in the middle of the pattern. This is not an issue of tolerance, but fairness to all concerned . BTW, we have a separate chopper flying area, no problem there. If you have only a few flyers at your field and people really don't mind cooling their heels while you hover over the airstrip, please ignore the above.

In response to the issue of Helicopters being like a torque rolling airplane I have to disagree. I have flown my heli at the airplane field many times. I fly on the runway and simply follow the same pattern I do with the planes. Most of the new heli pilots choose to hover at a different location at the field because there helis remain reletively stationary. This helps keep everybody happy and safe. A stationary plane/heli is a hazard if other planes are in the air. My only example of a dangerous situation that I have been a part of was this: I was flying the normal pattern and decided to bring it into a low hover over the RW. No one else was flying and they all seemed happy just watching me fly it around. Like always there are a few people that just don't care about others. In this case it was the 2 guys that fly there quickie type planes. Because of the inability of the 2 of them to get the motor to idle they use the full throttle/carry the plane onto the RW for launching. This has never been that big of an issue except for the fact that they felt that it was OK to walk onto the RW without telling me this. As heli pilots may know hovering a heli, although simple once it is learned, still requires total attention. Because I heard the screaming Jett motor moving towards the RW I knew that one of them was approaching the area where I was hovering. This was confirmed when I quickly looked away from my hovering heli to verify where the guy was. At this point I saw him walk right out on the RW and within 15 feet of my heli. Once I realized he did not care about his saftey I pulled the heli out of a hover and flew it down the RW in the opposite direction. Now, since I am a competent Heli Pilot I was able to perform this. If I wasn't it could have gone the other way. I am responsible for my safety and those around the field. Had my model hit this guy I would feel terrible. After the guy cleared the Rw and the plane was off I promptly landed and let them fly. I, in a nice attitude, told the guy that he might think of telling me that he will be entering the RW next time so i can ensure his safety. He apologized for not telling me and that was the end of it.

Everyone should be able to do the type of flying that they want to. Just be aware of everyones needs and courteous to one another. BE SAFE!

JMHO, Phil (Mesa, AZ)

1,800 RPM of Carbon Rotors would do some serious damage!!! Here is a pic of what he felt comfortable walking out to while in flight.

It's true, hovering over the runway excludes others from using it for take-offs and landings. This is not a problem until it gets busy at the field. You should not expect anyone to sit-it-out while you practice 3D.

Our club has been able to manage well. The 3D guys take the field and everyone else takes a break. Usually this doesn't take up too much flying time for the other 90% of the club.

The above is all fine if you have a small club. My club has 400 members. Granted, not all of them come out every day, but it still frequently gets very busy, so giving everyone 10 minutes to themselves simply does not work. (10 mins x 400 = 3 days and nights).

Even when it's less busy, the above approach frequently just doesn't work. Quite often on Friday afternoons there may be only a dozen people flying, but half of them are 3D'ers. I have on occassion tried waiting for one of them to finish his flight before going up with my jet, but that doesn't work either, because by the time one 3D guy is thinking about landing, two more have lined their planes up on the taxiway waiting to go up individually one after the other, and so it continues in round-robin fashion.

Don't get me wrong - I don't mind 3D (as long as the plane is not right in front of me the whole time so that I can't see past it ;-), and I both like and admire the guys in our club who fly 3D ... I'm just pointing out that your approach simply does not work for us.

Regs,
Gordon

Gordon,

I assume you fly at SCCMAS. I used to fly there before I moved out of the bay area in 1988.

The ten minute thing is just a guideline. Obviously, it wont work if every type of plane has to be on a ten minute schedule.

Bottom line is do what works for your club and the individuals who fly there so that every person can enjoy their hobby.

ya ....what wayne said!!!

At my field it is customary to call out all take offs and landings. If I or anyone else is 3d'ing over the runway they promptly get out of the way. Very simple,very effective.

What wgeffon said is absolutely correct.

It's all about etiquette, cooperation, tolerance and finding out what works for the club you are currently in.

The solutions to different styles/types of flying (helicopters, 3D, gliders, pylon, oval, touch and go, etc.) at the same field on the same day rest with the club. And nowhere else.

What needs to be kept in mind is that we all (this includes people who fly the "oval") fly in a manner which someone else finds fault with. IMHO someone who does nothing but "touch and go's" ties up the runway area more than a 3D pilot performing a torque roll in the same area. But, I will not support telling the person who likes flying touch and go's, "you can't do that because I have to fly around you". I simply find some other manuvere to work on while he is flying. When he lands, then I practice the torque roll.

Etiquette, cooperation, and tolerance are the keys.

E-Challenged..........


What field are you referring to specifically ??

Chris 100 is the same way mine is, you call "take off" "landing" "on the field" my club is small though, i think 100 people, I've never seen more than 4 people up.

I just bought me a HI-TEC Spectra Radio, I already have the little screwdriver that allows me to adjust the frequency, Now when I go to the field and somebody is flying in a way that I don't like, I just adjust it until they are no longer flying.


No more problems!!!!!

Well shoot, it sounds alot like E-Challenged is referring to the field I fly it, and if so, I wouldn't be surprised if I have rubbed him the wrong way there he he. Are you referring to Whittier Narrows? Five flying stations, run way running north to south, or vice versa, although most pilots still land right to left in the some times northerly wind ha ha (and then they wonder why the plane is screaming past them, reaching the end of the runway really fast).
I completely aggree with Wayne, and I pick my time to fly, and some times I pick my time to land, cutting my flight short. Yes, I like to be over the runway, hovering, waterfalls ets., but I get out of the way if anybody declares a take off or a landing. I guess non 3D flyers don't realize, that 3D is done better low, slow and close. I have not received anything but positiv comments when flying at Whittier Narrows, if anybody has a gripe with my flying, they should approach me at the field, so it can be discussed face to face.
DKjens

There are a lot more dangerous things than well controled planes hovering over the runway. How about being on a flight station set 15 feet away from the runway and hearing a plane buzz around wildly BEHIND your head!! And no this was not a 3D guy, just a "safe" sport flier...

Oh PLEASE........

DITTO

Andy

I also hate the way 3D guys hog the middle if the field. I quit attending giant scale events because of 'em. Who wants to drive for hours, only to be denied equal flight time. The local experts and vendor reps get 3 flights to your one, and the host organization support the policy to keep the reps happy. I hate it!

jnjacksn



If we catch you doing this at our field...you will not leave in the same condition that you arrived

... but why do you compare a safe 3D flyer to an unsafe sport pilot, when you could just as easily compare a safe sport flier to an unsafe 3D pilot ?? (We have all of the above in the SCCMAS BTW. I won't mention names! ;-).

Suggesting that pilots of one discipline are safer than pilots of another is a sure way to achieve nothing but animosity, IMO. (All have a mixture of safe and unsafe pilots.) I think that a much more productive approach is for each discipline to try to find out what the most common causes of gripes against them is, and try to make whatever accomodations they feel are reasonable. The minor policing that you do of your own group will be much easier to handle than if groups pit themselves against each other and you end up with club officers having to draw up a bunch of new rules to govern your activities.

For instance, the most common gripe about heli pilots in our club is about them flying from the infield instead of at a pilot station where they can hear people calling landings; for jets the biggest gripe I hear is about making reverse-pattern fly-bys right down the runway; for sport planes the biggest gripe is about t-34's racing against the pattern while others are trying to do landings; for 3D the biggest gripe I hear is about pilots who insist on hovering their aircraft close in in front of some other pilot instead of doing it in front of themselves , and so on. In each of these cases there is an extremey simple way of addressing the annoyance without any significant reduction in the fun you can have, and nipping the minor problems in the bud before they escalate.

So - isn't it better to make such simple changes (and communicate calmly about changes you might want to suggest to others), than to increase friction between disciplines by seeming to suggest that one is safer than the other ?

Regs,
Gordon