Banche

I have a TOC 30% yak that will probably come in at about 16.5 pounds all up. It is an awsome 3d plane from what I have heard. I am going to go with 5645's all over and 5945 on the rudder.

I was wondering which engine would be best. I am thinking that the MVVS 58 would make this plane a beast but I want to run a canister muffler with it and I cant fined one that fits. I am wondering if The DA is more powerful than the ZDZ 50. I want awsome virticle. I had a funtana 90 with a saito 100 and I never want to go through that again.

No matter what muffler I get I want it to have smoke!!!

On Chief you can get pitts for the ZDZ and the DA that Have smoke but If I am gonna go for one of those engines I want all the power I can get out of a canister muffler and have smoke on it. Is that possible. I want to be able to hover at 1/2 throttle and have awsome pullout. can I get that with the DA or the ZDZ.

Or where can I get canister mufflers for the MVVS that are not extreamly long. The canister housing looks pretty long to me. I just want one with smoke!!!


Help!!

Angus Balfour

If you want awesome pullout on a 16.5lb plane you will need more than a 50, or else you will need to pipe it. My Vision is 15.5lbs with a ZDZ 50, pullout is good but not awesome.

Quoted power of DA 50 is 5bhp and ZDZ 50 is 5.7bhp

Angus

RTK

My Feedback: (1)

The 58 has the others beat. The zdz and DA should put out about 22+lbs of static thrust on a good regular muffler.

Big Barry

Go to the Gas Engine section and check out the posts on the MVVS 58. I just got my MVVS 58 prosport the other day and I am told that the MVVS has the power of an 80cc it will turn a 26x10 mejzlik @ 6,000rpm with a tunned can. Check it out at http://www.mvvs-canada.com/index.htm I'm planning on putting mine in a BME YAK-54 when they get here. This engine was designed to power 30%-33% planes from 17-26lbs. Can you say "Power to spare or how a bout unlimited verticle from any attitude"?

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

For the record, my ZDZ 80's on the cannisters weigh about 8 ounces more (72 oz with plug and ignition vs. 64 on the MVVS 58 and DA 50) than the MVVS/Evolution 58cc and swing a Bambula 26x10 (higher load than Mejzlik) at 6700 rpm. My brother's DA 100 swings the same prop at 6900 so that should give some comparison. They give unlimited vertical in 22-23# planes (see my avatar) with good acceleration, but not really explosive "slingshot" acceleration. That is why I like electric foamies. This is at 4600' elevation, so about the same as Reno.

The MVVS 58 seems to be an extremely well-built engine and is probably the best 60cc engine out there, but it is a bit of a stretch to compare it to all other 80cc engines. That said, it weighs about the same as a DA 50 (including standoffs, ignition, and plug--these weigh 9 ounces), and certainly will have more power, especially on a cannister. I think it will be wonderful on any plane in the 16-20# range.

As far as putting smoke in the plane, that defeats the purpose of building it light, wouldn't you say? Good 3D flight requires light weight, probably even more than it requires excess power.

If you want light weight with power, look at the MVVS 58, ZDZ 60, or the BME 110 if you want crazy power (same weight! 71 oz with mufflers and ignition).

Brett

Big Barry

Brett

Ya the ZDZ has it beat and it should 80cc vs 58cc, but I think it will give most in the 75-80cc class a run for the money. You made some good points and I think that if Banche chooses the 58 he wont be disapointed especially if he can get the plane to come in at around 17#, thats what I'm shooting for.

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

If you put a cannister and smoke on this plane, you will be looking at more like 17-18 pounds, dry weight. If you put the MVVS 58 and don't go with the magnesium case and add a cannister, count on 18+ pounds, dry. Now add 32 ounces of fuel and smoke...you are close to 20 pounds!!!
Do yourself a favor, get the DA 50, stock muffler, and forget about smoke until you go bigger some day. If you use that engine/muffler, toss the included spinner and go with a CF or no spinner, wood prop, li-ion, non redundant system, and a 16 ounce tank, you will have a plane that is 16.5 pounds, including fuel! And believe me, if you are anywhere near sea level, that plane is going to be a rocket ship!
Plese don't turn this thing into a TANK!!!

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

Trust me, the DA has better performance on the airplane than the ZDZ.

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

I get 22lbs with a brand new DA, stock muffler, at 6500ASL! Once broken in and at sea level, with a 23X8, you can count on 26-28 pounds, based on a fish scale, not motocalc.

RTK

My Feedback: (1)

I am sure you are right bodyworks. I have never owned the DA and from engines that I have in the same class I was just shooting out a number. I was pretty close @ 22+ lbs. I always believe in the old fish scale. Some of the thrust calculators are close but nothing as accurate as physical testing. Pe has about the best calculator going.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

Is this based on your experience, or conjecture? Everything I have seen or heard indicates the DA50R and the ZDZ50NG are roughly equal (same weight, same prop, same RPM, same fuel consumption), with the rotary drum induction ZDZ having a more linear throttle response.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

You are exactly correct, keep the plane as light as possible! The ounces add up fast. This plane has around 1400 square inches IIRC so try to keep it in the 16-17# range. Keep in mind you will add another 20 ounces of fuel beyond this bare weight. Keep the plane as simple as possible and enjoy it!

Wow, I just realized the MVVS 58 costs $700...

Brett

Big Barry

I paid $667 for the 58 cc Prosport with shipping. You get what you pay for.

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

I guess there isn't much of a price jump going to a larger 33% plane, as these 50+cc sized planes cost about the same.

The Evolution version of the same engine costs $599 at Chief, $4 more than the DA50. All things considered, you paid the same price as a YS 1.40DZ.

Please keep us posted on your progress, Barry and Banche. I am very interested to see how it all turns out!

Brett

Angus Balfour

I get 7500 - 7600 on a 22X8 Menz. Standard pitts muffler. Don't hear of many DA 50 getting those rpm.

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

I am at 7000 feet, and I watched my friend tach his ZDZ50RV with a meszlik 22X8 at 68-6900 rpm. With the same prop on his DA, he tached 72-7300 rpm.
No one mentioned which ZDZ to run. The NG may have more power than the RV, but it is also $100 more than the DA and factory direct support is an ocean away...and it is a couple ounces heavier.

Banche

I am going to be doing halftime shows at my schools football games with this plane and I really feel that I need smoke. I am going to do the MVVS, thats what I am leaning toward. I might just build the plane first with the engine and put on smoke later. when I get the plane flying perfect. Then thats all I have to worry about.

I think it will 3d fine with another pound on it. with smoke but I will save that for last.

well seeeeee...........

bodywerks

My Feedback: (4)

good luck...

BTerry

My Feedback: (8)

Compare the RPM figures with the previous post.

The ZDZ 50NG (50RV is not available any more) weighs 54 oz (3.37#) with ignition, plug, prop bolts, etc. It costs $569, or $668 with the Pitts muffler from RCShowcase.

The DA-50R weighs 51 oz (3.13#) with engine standoffs, MINUS plug, prop bolts, and ignition (another 6 oz). It costs $595, or $704 with the Pitts muffler from Chief.

Your point about the factory support being an ocean away is valid. However, NONE of these engines, DA included, should require factory support. DA is relatively new to model airplane engines, and their inexperience showed early on with the failing cranks. ZDZ has nearly 50 years of experience, and is staffed by Soviet aero engineers. They both make excellent products. In fact, I think DA makes remarkable products considering the size ofthe company. As an engineer I am impressed.

My brother, father, and I have run hundreds of gallons through 2 ZDZ 40's, 2 ZDZ 80's, and 1 DA 50, and 2 DA 100's. They are all great engines. The only problem we ever had was with the first ZDZ with the old Bing carb (Walbro license), which was a well-known problem. It wouldn't choke fully and the pump diaphragm would fail. That was about 6 years ago. All the other engines used the Walbro carb with no other issues.

All of these engines require a bit more setup knowledge than the glow engines, but as long as the fuel gets there and the spark works, the magic happens.

I am not trying to attack anybody and hope I do not offend anybody.

Banche, be sure you have insurance coverage if you are flying during a high-school football game. AMA won't cover you! Always keep the "put it in the dirt in case of emergency" mentality, and you just may avoid putting it into the crowd. That would be all the RC community needs...