For the Funtana. Which one and why? Most importantly......Why?
Thanks,
Robert.

Hahaa, I see that you are doin more research on this stuff....by the way, do you have the Funtana yet?? I LOVE that plane. I might get one to replace the DP. And I would go with powerflites, just cause I hear that they are good.

The Funtana should be built soon!

Powerflites are the way to go. Larger selection, great products, and customer support.

IMO, the only reason to go duralites, is that theyre slightly cheaper. But, you get what you pay for in the end.

How about neither and just use Nicads, they are really cheap.

4 cell 1100 mah AAU cells, 3.5 oz and $12 US, pretty tough to beat that.

I can get 8 flights out of that pack on my Evolis, 3 digitals, and 2 high perf. coreless servos.

Powerflites dont have memory, never need cycling, dont drop their charge over time like nicads, they are lighter, each cell runs at 3.6v, and charge in less than 4 hours. If youre into performance, and saving weight, that is proof enough for me.

I have been using Power Flight batts for about 2 years. I'm especially fond of the 2000 mha 2 cell packs. They full charge in two hours, fly all day, and their voltage regulators are right on the number. Real nice people to deal with and always willing to answer questions. In my book thats a winning combo. :thumbup:

For our applications Nicads dont exhibit much memory effect.

I have not cycled a my Nicads in over 2 years, voltage test every flight and have never noticed a loss in capacity (400 flights/year).

My battery weighs 3.5 oz, my plane (a 2 meter pattern model) is 9.4 lbs, 1 more oz off is not going to make any difference.

I can fast charge in 20 minutes, while I drive to the field.

I dont need to run a regulator, and it would cost an arm and a leg to get properly set up to run them, what would I do with the equipment that I have now? I can buy 3-4 Nicads for the cost of one lithium.

I dont want to start a fight, but I did the Duralite thing when they were all the rage, now that I went back to Nicads, I very quickly realized that the lithiums just are not worth it.

Save your money, spend it on fuel, it will make you a better flier, batteries wont

Hmmm. I can find a reply for all of your concerns. I still like Powerflites more.

Old duralites were a waste, but these powerflites rely on technology we use everyday in cell phones, laptops, your computer's Bios memory, your new car's computer, and alot of other things. I trust them.

At least we agree on that

swap shop for cam-corder packs (li-on) and a universal charger. power a 40% with 5000mah for under 50.00 dollars. the only thing you need is the regulator. or get the charger and regulators from a known source and get the packs from the swap shop and still save your self 50.00+ a pack. not being a cheap person in a hobby yhat can cost you your retirement but you dont have to pay through the nose for old technology. (just new to models)
RR

NICADS

Duralite Plus and Powerflite use the same technology batteries. Lithium Ion. I personally use Duralite Plus because of the service and support I've received from Emory Donaldson over the years. Both are good batteries, but Emory is the difference for me.

Doug Cronkhite
Team JR

And Duralites have a charge protection circuit built into each pack. I used the original Duralites when they first came out. I had no problems with them until they reached the end of their life. I won't switch back to nicads now that there is a better, lighter source of power. Progress marches on!

I'm sure its more than you want to know. I just skimmed through it.
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What’s the difference between PowerfLite and other Lithium hobby batteries?

• We use only factory fresh, first run cells. We refuse to use surplus, recycled or factory seconds & “blem” cells. That is why our batteries are more expensive than others on the market.

• Our products are designed for R/C use, they are not a generic pack designed for general purpose applications.

• Skyborn Electronics has more experience & fielded more PowerfLite brand Li-Ion battery packs for hobby applications than anyone in the business; we know what works & what does not work for R/C modeling.

The so-called “new” Brand X “+” system from the competition is the same Li-Ion cell products as used in PowerfLite products. When many in the hobby battery market were advocating Li-Ion would not work for R/C, Skyborn Electronics never stopped developing and advocating the use of PowerfLite Li-Ion products- they work extremely well in many applications.

I’ve heard Li-Ion batteries can’t source the same amount of current that other batteries can produce…

True. There are special-purpose Li-Ion batteries that can source high currents for HEV applications. However, for general-purpose use, Li-Ion cells commercially available today cannot cost effectively source the same high average current levels that a comparable sealed lead acid (SLA) or a Ni-Cd will provide. For large electric powered planes & cars with 10~ 40+ Amp current draws, a Li-Ion battery won’t last very long in these applications. There is not a practical battery solution (presently available in 2002) except SLA or Ni-Cd that cost effectively services these high current R/C applications.

Li-Ion is a good alternative in low-to-moderate amperage applications such as:

• Smoke & Turbine Fuel Pumps;
• R/C Transmitters;
• R/C Receiver packs powering digital servos;
• Small Electric Indoor Micro-flyers & Park Fliers

Li-Ion is excellent for use in sport a/c, helicopters, large-scale models, sailplanes, gas powered R/C cars, ducted fan and turbine powered jets or anywhere weight & space are critical.

Why doesn’t PowerfLite use cell or charge protection on its Li-Ion packs?

We listen to customers. The Bottom Line: The model is more important than the battery pack.

• For R/C modeling, you do not want anything that could interfere with a battery pack during operation. We object to the principle of protecting the battery pack and its cells, but crashing the plane.

• The on-cell protection or charge security devices add complexity to the pack and is another item in the battery pack that can fail.

• We build charging protection into our chargers by designing smarter, more sophisticated chargers. Charge protection belongs in the charger- not in your model or battery pack. That means our chargers are more expensive, but a battery packs job is to supply power; the chargers job is to charge the battery- its that simple.

We had cell & pack protection devices in our Li-Ion battery packs when first introduced to the R/C market. However, we had numerous problems with handling induced damage to the protection circuits. If the pack was dropped or improperly vibration isolated, this would damage the circuit and cause failures. In R/C, you strive to increase the reliability and reduce the risk of failure in the power path from the battery pack to the Receiver.

Is it safe to use unprotected Li-Ion cells?

We will provide protection circuits to modelers who prefer to use them. However, we strongly do not recommend cell protection devices be used for battery packs in R/C aircraft. It is a greater safety issue if the pack fails in a 200 mph turbine jet or 40 lb. 40% scale aerobatic model and far more hazardous than operating the model without cell protection on the battery pack- it just makes sense.

Any battery/energy storage device is a safety hazard if handled improperly. We suggest you disregard marketing hype from other suppliers, so-called internet experts, and second hand information. Li-Ion batteries are new enough to the R/C market & the general public that few have first hand experience with Li-Ion products. 1 test is worth 1000 opinions- unless someone can provide real test data and long-term field use and experience, don’t believe the hype. Skyborn Electronics has produced more Li-Ion battery packs for hobby applications than anyone else in the hobby business- we know what works and what does not work

Cell protection is used to protect the cells, not protect the system that is being powered by the cell/pack. Cell protection is used to control the operational properties of the cell. Cell protection was introduced for a number of reasons, but in summary it comes down to two issues:

1) Safety - The use of Lithium-Metal battery cells in cellular phones some years ago created a safety problem because pure Lithium used in these cells is volatile. This had a negative impact on consumer applications using chemistries based on Lithium. Therefore, Li-Ion cell manufacturers used cell protection devices as an extra measure of protection to build consumer confidence and ensure a high standard of safety for OEM consumer products.

Also, to charge Li-Ion batteries, if a “dumb” charger is used in place of a “smart” charger (“smart” meaning the ability to sense & control charge voltage, current, and time of charge), you need a protection circuit on the battery pack to protect the pack if the charger improperly functions. Cell protection is also used to protect the cells and pack if an attempt is made to charge the batteries with a charger for Ni-Cd’s or other chemistries.

In spite of the hype about Li-Ion cells bursting, this is a highly exaggerated condition. Most knowledgeable modelers also know of or experienced first hand, Ni-Cd, Ni-Mh or even Lead Acid batteries that have burst. Cylindrical and prismatic Li-Ion cells are vented just like Ni-Cd, Ni-MH and Lead Acid batteries; venting is an industry standard method of providing pressure relief. Vented cells are less prone to bursting and simply vent if overheated or shorted. The electrolyte can be flammable, but needs an ignition source to burn, this is no different than the wood, foam, plastics, gasoline & fuels that are on-board most models. Li-Ion Polymer cells are vacuum-sealed and therefore not vented. If they begin to outgas they can expand and burst, but because they use a laminated gel polymer they usually do not release electrolyte.

2) Reliability - The protection devices help to regulate cell operating conditions and is the #1 method manufacturers use to guarantee maximum life-cycle performance of the cell or pack and meet IEC acceptance test standards for OEM use in consumer products.

There are 3 ways Li-Ion cell damage occurs:

a) Over-Voltage when charging (i.e. greater than 4.3V/cell);
b) Under-Voltage by excessive discharging (i.e. lower than 2.25V/cell)
c) Over-Current (high continuous Amperage Loads above 2~3C)

{NOTE: It is our experience that Over-Current conditions result in most cell protection activation in R/C applications. When the charge state of the cell/pack is low and a high current pulse load is placed on the battery (such as a 3D aerobatic maneuver), its common for the pack to cut-off if it has cell protection. The pack will not reset itself until the load is removed. By this time you have crashed your model.}

Summary
If you use a PowerfLite charger, follow our instructions, and exercise common sense in installation and use, your likelihood of incurring problems are no different than with any other type of battery. Remember: ANY battery is unsafe if handled improperly.

We know of PowerfLite customers who have charged Li-Ion packs with Ni-Cd chargers, Lithium-Metal chargers, crashed and had shorted packs due to impact damage, as well as reversed connection polarity. Fortunately, we have had no reports of fires, burst cells, or other damages to models or the modeler themselves. Many of the safety issues associated with Li-Ion products, play on the safety issues that occurred with Lithium-Metal batteries, which the rechargeable cell market has mostly eliminated and replaced with other Lithium chemistries. However, no system is perfect or foolproof. There is nothing anyone can do to prevent improper use or harm if ignorance prevails over common sense.

I think there is a large misunderstanding as to what the Duralite Plus charge protection does. It ONLY affects the charging process.

At no time will the charge-safe circuit shut off power delivery (through the black lead). There is an optional cell protection circuit available but this does not come standard on the batteries.

Both Duralite Plus and Powerflite battery systems are high quality items.. but the misinformation needs to stop.

-Doug

That information came directly from the powerflite Tech Page.... Now that I looked closer, I dont think they say Duralite anywhere in there... lol, dont shoot the messenger.

Who do they mean there?

Why not use NiMH?

Something like the Sanyo HR4/5-AUP is 1700 mAh, good for 20 amps and weighs 1.2 oz per cell. A 5 cell pack is about $30.

Hi Robert,
I have used duralites for about 2 years without issue, just moved over to the Duralite plus system, again no issues.

Niall

powerflights are a waste of money on a plane like that, get a 30$ battery pack from superbatterypacks.. you wont need no stupid regulator, 'special charger" and its just a hell lot simpler, enough said

Got a real bad taste of with the originals Duralites, but after a phone conversation with Emory, I when with the Duralites plus, so far they are top notch battery, and it they are of the same technology as the Powerflight.

Daniel D.