Hi!

What´s up with my Thunder Tiger 3D Spirit, as it doesn´t like to flat spin? I stalled it and added full up elevator & rudder & little throttle, but the nose start to poin down, the nose won´t stay horizontal. My CG is 6.3" behind the LE (recommended was 5.5"). Should I still move the CG one foot more backwards, or what [>:]? Funny, but when I land I need to use down elevator (other planes I use up elevator)...

Reggae Man

Did you not use any ailerons to flatten the wing? Hence a FLAT SPIN?

On FlyingCirkus.com there are som 3DU videos that should help.

Your throws might not be enough. Like someone else said you may not be centering your aileron stick. You may even need opposite aileron to get it to flatten out. The rudder usually keeps it rotating. The ailerons keep the wings level.

and you need lotsssss of elevator to keep that tail down!!

Start with a normal spin, right aileron, right rudder and up elevator. Let the aircraft spin a few turns,then start feeding in opposite aileron and then down elevator. Most aircraft require lots of control deflection, aft CG and some require NO power to enter. Give it a try.

On my 3d profiles I get into an upright flat spin by:
Climbing at about 60 deg with enough power to continue climbing - apply full left rudder
Apply full up elevator as soon as it responds to rudder
Add right aileron as required
You may need more throttle. Too much aileron may roll it out.
This gets my planes spinning without violent contortions during the transition.

To do an inverted spin:
Climb at 60 deg inverted, apply right rudder.
Apply full down.
Ease in right aileron, throttle as required.

Hi!

Yep, I did use aileron too to try to flatten the wings (forgot to mention it earlier), but the stupid plane (that´s right, it´s plane - not the pilot ) keeps diving..... I used full up elevator (50 degrees) but doesn´t help - nose keep pointing the ground. Anyways, thanks for your replies - will try those when I´ll get back to the field.

Reggae Man

Either that elevator is too smal or your CG is too far forward. Try it when your tank is a 1/4 full.

Sounds like you need more power if you are already tailheavy and at 50 degrees of elevator deflection. A good flat spin usually requires almost full power even on a heavily overpowered 3D plane. Try an inverted flat spin and see what you get. Most planes spin better inverted than upright.

Heres how you do it.
Get up 3 mistakes high
High rate elevator.
Full Down elevator, Full Left aileron, Full right rudder and about 3/4 to full power at the same time.
When the plane starts to spin let the ailerons come back to center and adjust as needed to flatten it out, you may actually end up with a little right aileron depending on how the plane acts. Everything else stays at full throw, maybe adjust the throttle some to clean it up.

What plane, engine, how much does it weigh??

I had the Spirit, I did not try flat spins (someone did a nice mid air on it when I was just puttering about at 5 mph 5' above the ground, he was doing the same the other way!!!) but it cannot be like what you are saying. With that much deflection the plane will hold its nose up as its a very light plane. I flat spin on my Harrier 3D 60 and my Fliton Prodigy EP with almost no throttle, esp the FLiton Prodigy. It will just fall like a leaf and spin flatly.

Try it inverted like what Ned says ... see what happens then. So as an example its DOWN Ele, Right Rud and Right Ail.

Hi!

Plane is Thunder Tiger 3D Spirit, and its total weight without 8oz fuel is 5 lb (5.03 lb). Engine is Rossi 53, Genesis throttle pipe, Perry 9500 carb with Perry PV 30 pump, 12.25x3.75 APC, Fuel Byron FAI, Enya 3 plug, what else ....Today I tried Flat Spin with my electric Eagle - now it started to look like it (still too much wind, about 16-18 kts [:@]). Why it liked to flat spin better when inverted? Is there some black magic in rudder input as they always instruct to use right ruder when inverted, and left rudder when belly down? I just moved CG further back, now it´s 6.7" - but it´s your fault if I can´t manage it after the (last) take off . Thanks a lot again for your help.

Reggae Man

Like elevator, rudder is reversed when you are inverted. Put your plane upside down in a cradle and put in right aileron. Put in rudder to make the plane yaw the same direction as the roll and you'll find it is left rudder. This is the reason you start inverted spins with the sticks split or together.

When I try to flat spin I use left rudder, left aileron, and UP elevator. Wouldn't down elevator cause the plane to dive? Or are you guys saying pull the elevator stick DOWN?? (causing up elvator deflection)

No, to do an inverted flat spin you apply down elevator (push the stick forward.) Right Rudder and Left Aileron.

I mean for upright spins though.....Left rudder, left ail (to start) and full up elevator (down stick) is this right?

Honestly. I think you need to be using up elevator and right rudder right ailerons for upright spins. You are using the engines torque to your advantage this way. Same thing with inverted using left rudder. You get the same direction of spin relative to the rotation of the prop and a better flat spin.

ok....right rudder, right ail and up elevator. But my main question is do you pull the stick up or down for elevator?? Up elevator implies, to me, the control surface moves up which is a down stick command. SO when you say UP elevator do you mean up on the stick or up on the control surface? Sorry for all the confusion!

Pro2K - okay its like this ... if you wanna do an INVERTED flat spin then its e.g. DOWN ele/RIGHT rud/RIGHT ail, if its an UPRIGHT one you go UP ele/RIGHT rud/LEFT ail ... I hope I am right! Hahaha ...

aaarrggghhh! I'm still confused! Upright spin......... up elevator.........do you mean up on the stick?

Up elevator means the surface. For un upright flat spin you need up elevator.

thanks dude! that's what I wanted to know

pro2k - whenever we say UP elevator is always the surface deflection ... hehehe ... have fun ok and please do it up high!!!

Thanks! That's what I always assumed but after reading all these posts I got myself confused.....Upright, inverted, left, right, up , down

pro2k - as long as you do it here its ok ... hahaha