What requires more flying skills (IMAC, Pattern, or 3D)?

I think I know what prompted this question.....Heh...

To do any of them well, the answer is "all". Each has it's own challenges and goals.

What I do find humorous is this line: "you're just jealous cuz you can't do it". HAHAHAHA!!!!

Well, let me address this one up front. I can do it, all of the above. I'm better at some things than others to be sure. But to say it takes more skill to hover than to fly a perfectly round 100' wind corrected loop is a crock. Perfect execution of both lies at the bottom of a large stack of fuel.

I also like the skateboarders invading the golf club analogy....that was quite funny. And very telling as well.

IMAC is basically pattern with scale planes. I like the unknown portion a lot. It's not really any more challenging, just different. Same with 3D.

3D has just apparently attracted a "fight the power" attitude from some. Not sure what that's all about, probably the same thing I get sometimes from the sport flying population. You aren't flying the way the want (which is a racetrack pattern turning left) so they start talking smack.

The 3D fliers will say it's the hardest, the pattern fliers will say that is harder, and the IMAC fliers will claim it's the hardest. Well, none of thosie answers are correct. The correct answer is "all of the above". And from there we all simply input our preferential slant.

I prefer pattern as I find it the most challenging for me. I found 3D to be easy in comparison. I haven't tried IMAC yet but will one day.

I do however appreciate the skill to do 3D CORRECTLY. Translated, that means I don't feel my life is in danger while standing there watching. You have to admit, some guys need to practice 3D ALONE for a while before they kill someone. These are the guys that can barely land without crashing into the pits, but have decided that hovering IN the pilot's box is a good idea. There's nothing more fun than practicing pattern with a Top Cap hovering 6 inches from your nose and closing fast. Don't laugh, it happens to me at least twice a week. Of course if you say anything, you're a jerk and you are just jealous because you can't do it....LOL. Well the problem is niether can THEY!!!

Enough rambling.

-Mike

My thinking is that IMAC requires the most skill to do proficiently.
Pattern requires delicate inputs and no deviation from the line. The goal is to perform the cleanest manuvers at a constant speed, and place the manuvers accordingly
3D requires vectoring the thrust column and knowing how to fly out of a snap in a very light airframe.
IMACequires the precision of pattern combined with a draggy scale airframe and a greater speed variance through the manuvers in addition to placement.

Chris

I would have to agree with MHester, they all have there challenges.

I'm with MHester too.

Beginning in pattern is hard and some people have trouble keeping a parallel line in the beginning. And what you hear alot about TR'ing (especially) you hear people talking about how hard that is because the rudder is something that isn't often used by sport flyers. Just my opinion.

The true art form is Pattern.
Ask any of the TOC guys.
Scales aerobatices is a walk in to park after the disciplines of F3A.
Free style..just a gass..away of shaking of stress, eye candy for the public before the serious bussiness preparing for next F3A contest.

There's just so many places to go wrong when flying pattern and I'm not talking about the aerobatics...as stated flying the lines is a *******... simple pull a 45 degree upline with a half roll in the middle.. and then getting a zero from one of the judges because in his opinion it wasn't exactly 45 degrees...bummer.
I mean even a novice can pull that manouver yet a world champ competitor can score a zero....
It's tough being precise.

They are different types of hards. Pattern is difficult because you are trying to make the airplane go through a precise pattern and some of the maneuvers have to be symmetrical, and all have to be perfect to get that 10.

3D is hard because you are getting an aerobic workout through your thumbs if you are not flying a Carden Edge (j/k).\

bla - Will you be getting the new Temptation? It sure does look nice!

so, how does one find F3A contests....I've never seen one.

But, I'm on the other coast...

Cheers,

Sean

I mailed Lee as soon as I saw the pics on the his site. Asked about buying one of the finished prototypes.... they're thinking about it.
Must say I'm just so happy with my Hydeout/YS combo...love it to death. The Focus has, whats basically Hydeout wings and stab...(I don't think they like me saying that)... Yet if flys completly different (OS 1.40 contributes). The wing being set 1 inch further forward plus the stightly larger H/stab adds a stonking great ammount of extra stability... I had problem finding my CG.
Anyway...I would believe that the Temp' has the same Hydeout wings and stab..even the canopy is from the same plug... so I'm wondering what to do. As said..so happy with the Hydeout I've got my eyes on a Hydeaway. Waiting for a friend in the UK to finish his agive me some feed back.
People are also going crazy over the EvolisXXL with a few mods so thats ads to the confuzion in this little mind of mine.

As regards to the person looking to find a contest to go and see be warned.... after all these glowing F3a remarks they are the most boring spectator sport ever invented... every body doing ecactly the same thing... and for most of us, they all appear as good as each other!!!! Thats why 99% of the spectators are also taking part...it's the only way to survive.
Nice story about one of the famous pilots from Japan... he like to sleep between rounds...he nods off...has 40 winks and is only woken up by his caller when his name is up! I bite my nails...he sleeps. I'm crap...he's famous. Says it all.

Bla Bla actually makes an interesting point about blowing off stress by flying freestyle. In an interview I saw with Patty Wagstaff she said that flying air shows was much easier and less stressful than flying precision contests, even though the manurers in air shows are done at much lower altitudes. She said it's easy to impress the crowd freestyle flying.

She also stated that she needs to stop flying air shows for a month or two before contests so she can practice and get back into the swing of precision.

Hey Bla Bla, you must have some pretty tough judges to give you a zero for missing the 45 deg line, either that or you were WAY off . I'm not sure what the penalty is for FAI but for the AMA rules up through Masters it's supposed to be 1 point for every 15 degrees (with lines more critically judged than roll errors). Using that rule you must have been going the wrong direction

Keith

Time for a new judge me thinks

KeithB... heres a guy thats fairly new to the sport and already has a big view finder on the whole concept of pattern.

Watch out for this guy... he' gonna tear it up in sumbodies class.. and real soon.

Go Kieth.

Time for me to move up... dont want him chasin my tail.

AS for whats harder in the skills department .... thats in the eye of the pilot/contestant.
Thats as far as I'm going to go with that.

Thanks for the kind words Toymaker. Just hope my fingers can keep up with my "viewfinder".

I have to admit I was glad to hear you were moving up too, I've seen you fly since you got your new Aries!

Keith

I have been flying for more years than I care to admitt, and fly all three styles. I pretty much suck at all of them, so my only conclusion is that they must ALL be hard...........or maybe I just suck

ROFL!!!

to me IMAC and pattern are the same discipline. I enjoy both sets of manuvers and criteria as do I enjoy practicing both with BOTH planes. (flying pattern sequences with the IMAC plane and vice versa). although I love the unknown sequences you encounter with IMAC.

anyhoo, I only dable in 3D and freestyle stuff. but what I have noticed was the the more proficient Ive become in flying the sequences the easier it becomes for me to catch on to some of the 3D flying. like stated earlier, I belive it mostly has to do with learning precision rudder and elevator imputs to control flight attitudes or hold straigh lines, then translating that over to 3D.

example: learning rudder corrections and wind corrections on upline 4 or 8 point or multiple rolls then using the same learned skills to master a tourque roll.

just my thoughts, fire away

Hubb

so far....Hubb has hit it on the head.....

All three of them take skill, but nothing that practice will not over come. Practicing any of the 3 will make you a better pilot all around.

It is not really which one is harder to do, it is about how much effort you put into any of the 3 styles.

Pug

The following views are not necessarily those of the sponsor or any of our affiliates

The following is just my observations and thoughts and are not intended to in"Flame" anyone or me.

I am just getting going with pattern and have an Aries on the building table. I have flown a few pattern planes lately ( Viper 202 and a Jekel) and have been hit with the fact that they are the smoothest flying planes I have ever touched. I have also been hit with the fact they DO NOT cover for you at all. It is as if they telegraph your bo bo's in a very noticeable way. I have to say after flying them NOTHING feels as good to fly now. I think the purity in control response tells you what you did right and what you did wrong in a much better way than the IMAC birds. IMHO IMAC aircraft seemed to have a softer edge for lack of a better word. Almost a "fat" feel to them.

I have competed in a few IMAC contest and have seen what appears to be a little bit of the "Bigger the Airplane the better a pilot you must be" Judging syndrome. I think this is inevitable as
it is just human nature at work. Kind of like if a guy owns the latest high dollar Sniper rifle one would assume he must be a master level shooter even if he has never fired a shot. Just simple human nature.

I like the cap on (2 Meter) size in pattern as this seems to keep the large variances in size of model out of things and would seem to help level the field a bit. The additional demands of the takeoffs and landings being judged are a little more skill building as well. I intend to fly IMAC again in the future but I want to build with the dicipline that appears to be required the pattern game first. I enjoyed the IMAC group and am looking forward to this year in meeting everyone in Pattern. I like to compete but the sport is as much about getting together and telling lies as it is about the flying.

I agree with the answer they all do.
In order to become good with all, you have to surround yourself with talent. And let face it, thats hard to find.
There are alot of pilots that do a little this and little that, and are pretty darn good at what they do do.
If I could get Chip, Jasen, KirkGray, to take my 11 yearold son
fly with them for the next 3 summers, Id be willing to bet his flying skills in all Imac, Pattern 3D would be far greater than the poor kid could ever do hanging around his dad, but I don,t think that will happen.

We dont........ lie............much!!!
We dont drink beer either..........much!!!

I'm getting pretty far into IMAC, and am just starting some pattern work. In my limited experience, I have found that while in pattern you must be more precise to score well in the maneuvers, but in IMAC you need more skill just to get through the maneuvers. This is more true in the upper classes than the lower ones. Pattern planes are much easier to fly because they are synthetic creations designed to fly perfectly as model airplanes. IMAC planes must make do with how their full-scale counterparts were designed, with some limited adjustments. Both require a lot of practice to become good at, but the IMAC folks are at a disadvantage due to manuever requirements and aircraft design.

I think that IMAC like someone said about patty earlier, is stressfull. And hard, but 3D takes quick thinking and also lots of skill.

Great answers everyone.

In the end, you have to please yourself (regardless who is watching/judging, you have to realize what you're really doing in the air with your plane) or it's not worth doing.

If something is worth doing, chances are it was difficult to do at some point, and in this light, IMAC, 3D and Pattern all offer challenges that may be equally difficult to those who seek refinement.

Like Mike said, the perfect loop is just as elusive as the perfect 3D hover. The price of perfection is time and fuel, or maybe not even that sometimes. I've spent hours on the slope doing thousands of loops to get one just right.

Know thy plane like thyself.
sorry to wax philosophical,
Joe

Here is my 2 cents,

As stated before, all are equally hard. However, in order to be proficient at any you must first learn the basics. If an average pilot wants to take a giant leap in flying skill he MUST learn to use the rudder properly. If you take the time to learn this, everything else will fall into place. I don't know how many times I have seen someone take off at full throttle, and not touch the left stick again until it is time to land. If there is a cross wind blowing in, they usually end up landing in the pits. It has taken me a year to get halfway good, and I still have to think about rudder correction when inverted.

Greg

I sure agree with many of the statements. The bottom line is to have FUN and enjoy what you are doing ! Even if it is a simple hand launce glider you are flying, this is just a HOBBY and we need to relax and enjoy it, so who really cares what is the hardest or most demanding. Just have FUN in whatever you do !!
Happy Holidays ! Rod