Hi Guys,
I have just gotten my H9 Edge 540 after waiting over 3 months because it was back-ordered. I have just registered here after viewing so many posts about the Edge's tendency to tip-stall at low speeds. I bought a ZDZ 40 engine for this plane but now a friend wants to buy it so I was thinking of buying a ZDZ 50 now. I looked at Dick Hanson's website and saw the wonderful pics of his mods to mount this engine. I have not seen any followups on his comments as to how it flew. I was hoping that this was going to be a great plane, but now have second thoughts. I have not started assembly as yet. Did anyone here used a big gasser on this plane with great results? Many thanks for your input.

keep in mind that if you put a larger motor in it you are generally adding weight.
If the plane has a tendency to tip stall with the recomended motor adding weight will just make that tendency worse.

The wings dont get any bigger when you add a bigger motor!

Meaning, they are just going to have to support more weight. The wing loading is going to go up. This will effect how it flies, how it stalls, how it lands.

Bigger motors arent the answer to a great flying plane.

Hi Wayne,

Thanks for the info. I do acknowledge all that you are saying and understood this before. My greatest concern is however, that quite a number of people seem to be experiencing lots of trouble with the H9 Edge 540. Your Edges look great by the way. I like your pics.

Forgot to ask if any of your Edges have gassers in them?

I also have a H9 Edge with a zdz40B that I'm installing at the present. I've been registered here since the beginning and read all the pro's and con's on installing a gasser like the zdz and bme . I personally feel that the plane will be awesome with this combo. It probably would fly better with the recommended engine choices, but i really wanted a gasser and i had already purchased the edge about a year ago. I wouldn,t listen to mucha about that tip stalling thing . Ive seen many fly before and they are as gentle as a trainer on landings if set up properly. Remember this is an aerobatic 3D type aircraft and meant to be flown by intermediate pilots and up. Some of the guys I see flying these quarter scale aerobats really should be spending more time on there avistars.
But you know you can't tell them that. I would also suggest setting the Cg in the middle of the recommended location.

Some people love to set there planes up nose heavy because there afraid of that tipstalling thing. but i usually like them more to the tail heavy side because you can land a lot slower and flair a lot better.
I will post some pics when I'm done and let you know how she flies.
Also what servos are you going for ?
I decided to put hitecs all around (two for the elevators), but not sure if i will get the digitals or the regular Hs 625, 645
I will be using the HS 81 mg for throttle and the Hs 81 BB for the choke which will also be my remote kill.

Hi Sal,

Thanks for the words of comfort I do agree with you in every respect. A lot of guys try to use this the Edge as a third plane, and expect it to fly like a trainer indeed. Your idea of CG location seems to be right based on the threads on this. I will try that CG.
Though our club is huge in giant scale, I am the first to have the H9 Edge 540, all the other guys have 33% upward. I would love to see the pics of yours and see your views on your Edge. Please email me or post the details. I will be using all HI-TEC digitals HS5625mg for the control surfaces and a HS 81 mg for throttle and choke. I chose the digitals for their speed, consistency, torque and ability to program them. For my remote kill I have built an electronic ignition switch using optical switching. I still have to do a bit of research on keeping ignition and receiver circuitry isolatedas the optical switch will be integrated with the ignition. Unfortunately, I will not be able to fly my Edge until mid April to early May because of winter. Though NY is around 50 mins flying time from here, our winters are a whole lot worse than yours. I fly smaller planes on skis on the snow though. Did you look at Dick Hansons site on building an engine mount box and how to save weight on the Edge? Let me know I can send you the link. It was really nice of you to reply.

My 29% had a BME 44 in it.
I sold it a few months back.

I agree with what Sal said. I saw two of these planes get wasted this summer due to lack of pilot skill for this type of plane. Both were spun into the ground due to heavy elevator thumbs. I flew both of these planes before their demise. One had a saito 1.80 in it. The other a Moki 2.10. I thought the plane flew good. It was OK for 3D. Lots of wing rock in high alpha. But typical for a plane of this size. Not bad though.
Both of them had too much elevator throw on low rates. They would snap out with all of it applied.

An aerobatic plane like this should snap with elevator. thats what makes them aerobatic but you should not be able to get that much on low rates.

Dont be afraid of this plane. Its a good one. Try to keep the weight down, dont overfly the elevator and just go have fun.

Thanks Wayne for the advice

Ive spent the better part of last year searching for info and sites about the H9 edge 540. I have seen Dick Hanson site and was really impressed that he had the all up weight was just under 13 pounds. Ive also found a few sites and videos of the edge


http://www.ros********.com/

http://3dbatix.com/

http://www.aeroforce.co.uk/freestyle/nath/edge.htm

http://www.*************.com/h9_t-craft_videos.htm (listen to that zdz 40 purr)

I will quit here now Sal, I will look for further posts from you.

God willing i will be posting my videos of this plane when im done, and i will really put it through its paces and tshow all how a 27% can 3d.

I have one with MVVS 1.6 gas.... iut weighs 12lbs.... there is no way that this model could fly IMAC, the tipstall is absolutely unbelievable, it's terrible... take note.. 12lbs.

3D is next to pointlessm harriers rock like hell, waterfaqlls don't track at all... elevators and parchutes are ok though.. and belnders are great.

I personally would seell the model right now too, get yourself a Dave patrick Extra.... it will fly FAR better than the H9 Edge, and accept this motor.

i was just wondering wich wing you guys had on these planes that are tip stalling is it the new wing or the old one. i hope you say it is the old one. i havnt flown mine since i recieved the new wing. so i can't cooment if it fixied it or not. will know in a few more weeks!!!!

a freind of mine has one weighting in at 11lbs will be interesting to see if the lesser wieght stops the tip stalling also. his also has the new wing. well all will tell when the weather breaks.
Chad

Chad,
The new wings dont do anything to prevent the tip stall. The new wings had some things changed in the building process to make them stronger.

Guys,
you want a plane that has some tip stall tendency. Without it you wouldnt have an aerobatic plane. You just dont want it to happen to early anytime you pull elevator.

If you take two of these planes and line them up one weighing 13 pounds the other weighing 11. The one that weighs less will stall out a slower speed than the one that weighs more in a power off stall.

In addition, The tip stall can happen at ANY speed. (Fast moving plane or slow) When the max angle of attack is exceeded for that wing its going to stall out. The plane can be going 100 MPH at the time. Its called an accelerated stall.
Weight will also effect when this happens. Lighter planes will be able to handle higher AoA than heavier ones with the same wing.

Thats why stall speeds are adjusted every flight in full size planes for weight changes, altitude of the field the plane is landing or taking off at and Temperature.

The wing is the wing. It doesnt change from flight to flight. Other factors effect how that given wing will fly. mainly weight in our models.

I disagree with the Gas engine on this plane.Wayne is right about weight and wing loading.You both said you read Dick Hansons comments on this combo,I find it funny that neither of you mentioned that Dick said he nor the manfacturer recomends this combo for 3D flying.Dick went to much greater lengths than most of us would or could to make tis plane light,much.We had one with a 2.4 gas and the 3D was non existiant,switched to an OS 1.60 and the plane really shines.The gas engine really ruins this plane as a 3D plane,IMO.You read over and over from the people who really know about 3D,the big boys as I call them,that the key is to keep it light,yet there are still guys insisting on a gas engine in a 25% plane because "they want a Gas plane".I'll stick to my standard statement that is, If you want a gas powered plane,buy one that was designed for a gas engine.It's that simple,the people who design these planes recomend certain engine ranges for a reason,after all we trust them to design the planes,why wouldn't trust their opinion on how to power them.JMO,
Mike

hmmm interesting on the new wing just being built stronger i thought they had a warp in them (mine did). i weighted in at 13lbs the last time i was flyinjg this plane and it was too heavy for 3d (it tippied stalled with the slightest elevator input) it was also a controlled crash everytime it was laneded. (tip stalled at slow speed) i hane done alot to get to wieght down this time. as i said above a friend of mine got his down to 12lbs. i think the wieght factor is the biggest thing on this plane. keep it light and it will be a good flyer. wich is almost imposible with a gas engine but could be done if you wanted to hack your plane all up. just put a moki 1.8 in it and you'll be more happy.
Chad

i know somebody flying one at 11.3lbs... it's very very little improved over my 12lbs.

Hi Guys,

The H9 Edge 540 manual states that the plane's "Weight (approx): 11-13 lbs. Now 13 lbs is 13 lbs regardless of power plant installed. The plane will definitely fly better at 11lbs than 13 lbs, but Dick Hanson did say in his write up on the Edge with a ZDZ 40 that "my model is well under the 13 lbs. max. weight recommended by the manufacturer." How well under 13 lbs we dont know, but still it was under the maximum permissible weight. Dick also did say in a thread somewhere here that the plane tip stalled at any speed.
So I would have thought that a plane with an engine under the max weight with more power should be a sweetie. We have to also remember that this is a fairly light "gas" engine compared to most of its counterparts eg the G62 which is bigger, heavier and less powerful than a ZDZ 40. I agree with Wayne about the plane tip stalling at any speed, we see it tip stalling more frequently when flying slow, thats why everyones opinion is that a plane only tip stalls when flying slowly. The ideal thing to do is to make comparisons with each other if there are a few guys here with the H9 Edge using different engines. I will probably put a ZDZ 50 in mine, yes I am threading in hot water but we will have data to compare. Sal is putting a ZDZ 40 in his and if there are other guys using glow engines then we can all discuss our failures and success and come to some practical conclusion.


Just my $ 0.02

I know you guys have seen the threads where people say.....
"Why does my plane snap out at the top of a loop" Or, "I get to the bottom of a loop and my plane does a snap roll"

Thats what an accelerated stall is.
Speed has nothing to do with it. Its AoA or Angle of attack.

I agree with that Wayne

More of a fact than something to agree with...

I have only seen one of these Edge 540's fly and it had a ZDZ 40 on it. The guy just flew it in fast circles because he was scared to do more than that...It would tip stall like crazy and there was no chance of a 3D move with it. The wing is just too small with too much weight. The airfoil design does not help things. To fly 3D you need a good handling airplane where each control surfaces has a lot of authority. Adding weight is as good as taking the throws down or making the control surfaces smaller. If a hover is all 3D means to you, it might be OK for that....It would not hold a KE either, but I am not real sure of his setup...

Add lightness!

Best of luck to you all,All I know is that my plane was a completly different animal with the 1.60,Chad had it exactly right,mine was the same way with the Gas engine,any elevator input at all was a snap,every landing was interesting.All hat went away with the 1.60.The plane is actually fun now,and will elevator,harrier,etc.
Good Luck
Mike

I have to agree with the above post. I have had one of these for over a year now with excellent results. Mine has the OS 1.60FX in and has unlimited vertical easy. It does harriers, elevators, waterfalls, rolling harriers, Torque roll very well. It flys very netural and shows no tendicy to stall. It lands as gentle as a trainer. Mine weights 12.25 pounds dry. There is nothing wrong with the airfoil on this plane it works very well. In all the posts over the past year everyone that has had a problems with this plane was one of three things:

1. Plane heavy, weights over 13 pounds because of use of a 2.4 or bigger gas engine. Will not 3D well!!!!

2. Low Rates setup incorrectly or overcontrolling the plane. (Follow the instructions.)

3. The leading edge of the main wing was not shaped correctly. Both sides do not match. This would cause drastic tipstalling. Check it if wrong get a replacement wing or correct it yourself.

One of my friends also has one of these with a Satio 1.80 w/ 17x6 apc. He has nothing but praises for this plane. His is around 11.5 pounds.

well, my verdict is that it isn't a comfortable 3d aircraft when it weeighs 12lbs. 10 would be nice!

I dont know about everybody else, but I have never had a problem with my edge (except for crappy landng gear mounts). My edge with a saito 180 has never tip stalled on me. Now there is significant wing rock during harriers, well, make that a lot of wing rock, but it is not enough to prevent it from landing in harrier attitude. I can slow this plane down to a crawl, but it doesnt tip stall. at near stall speeds, the wing will begin to rock a little and then the nose wil drop, unless for some reason you add more elevator and then it will tip stall. I cant speak for everybody. Many people have claimed that their edge isnt worth having, but mine is great. Also the dave patrick airplanes do look to fly a lot better. They dont wing rock at all during a harrier.