Hello, wanted to get a sanity check on a somewhat advanced maneuver.

The following maneuver, (its entered high inverted)

From level inverted, pull to vertical down, do a 2 point roll then 7 of 4 points in the opposite direction and pull out cross box.

How does one slow the plane down enough to do all of this?

Assuming the maneuver before was at normal (top) altitude at the completion of a maneuver like either a half loop or a vertical up with 1 1/4 snap rolls up.

Your thoughts welcome,

Don

Don,

I have no clue as to how you would have enough altitude to pull that out. What schedule is that on? I am hoping that would be a typo. That isnt on the TOC knowns is it? Hopefully you can get some usable information.

I guess the only other way you could do it would be to reverse the collective pitch on the rotorhead (just kidding).

Steve

I tried it today, started about 700 feet, I did the fastest point rolls I've ever done on a vertical down- then was very nervous about the trees as I was getting ready to pull out. Perhaps a larger prop for "breaking". Not ready to go variable pitch (yet, at least).
Very exciting-
Don

Don

What about trying out some of those airbrakes like Hatta uses on his Explorer

That manuver is kinda silly, there is difficult and then there is just plain crazy, I think this one falls on the latter.

In all seriousness, I cant see getting that much more breaking out of a prop to make a major difference (some but I dont know how much), probably the only way you will be able to do it is from way up and roll fast. Good thing you are flying a 40%, I dont think you could see a pattern model that high Also you should probably try to keep the hesitation between different rolling segments "brief"

Tell us how you make out.

Don, what about split ailerons/flaps, like on the hangar9 utlrastick? Split the flaps down, the ailerons up, and use that for braking? Would you have to worry about a noise increase on going to a larger prop under accelleration? (the new IMAC sound judging)

Also, are there any people using variable pitch prop/hub combos on the large scale planes? I would be concerned that the stresses on the prop and hub would cause it to throw a blade, which would be a very very bad thing. It's something that a couple of fliers and I have batted around the feasibility of. Imagine the AA or freestyle routine you could do with the ability to feather the prop, or even get a little bit if negative pitch. Pull a 45 upline, head into a lomchevack, kill the pitch, and let the plane move on the 45 upline backwards a few feet (aka Wayne Handley sp? and the turbo raven). Using smoke to enhance the effect. Or take it to the total extreme, and go from an upright to inverted hover(tail high). Could lead to a whole new set of maneuvers, like the spinner touch .Amazing what you think of at 3:30 in the morning when you cant sleep.

BTW, how is your new focus doing, with the dual sets of wing panels?

Steve

Well, split control surfaces, even flaperons are not legal since the full scale doesn't do it. Actually I guess variable pitch props are too unless they are on the full scale (which I don't think they are on the CAP). I'll be rolling "very crisply" if I have to do the maneuver.

You made me think of a story- at the last TOC Gerald Neel was on a vertical downline during his freestyle and the engine kicked and ran backwards. He slowed down nicely, smoke came through the prop- it looked really odd, then it kicked back to normal and he pulled out like it was part of the routine. It looked neat, although unintentional.

I'm flying the 33% H9 CAP. Its doing all the tough maneuvers well except the push to vertical up, two pos snaps, opposite 4 pt roll to hammerhead. In the wind it gets pretty mushy after the two snaps.

Focus AA is awaiting an engine from Richard- I need either a DZ or an L, I suppose. I'm re-doing the hinges on the big (46%) Cap to give more elevator throw for 3D and stronger rudder hinge setup, plus an extra aileron servo for kicks. After that there is the Extra, then the Focus. Maybe by late spring or early summer.

Don

Don, maybe do this one going UP ??? That's a LOT of stuff to do on a downline, unless you entered it just above dead airspeed, like a stall entry, REALLY high, as you said....
For dramatic effect, why not change the 7 of 4 to FIVE of four - >? It would give you a LITTLE more room...and a 180 change in exit orientation...

dont cut into your ailerons to make flaps! just program your radio with flaperons. it will save you alot of work. also try a menz S class prop. they have a wider chord. also you might wanna go to a a lil larger diameter prop and decrease the pitch. that is if you have enough power for your vertical uplines. also if your tail is airfoiled you might wanna look into a planked tail (without airfoil) aftermarket kit. but hey good luck\

justin

oh i wanted to tell ya if you program in flaperons you will most likely have to program sume elevator mixing in the radio to because the flaperons will have adverse pitch tendencies

The full size Cap 232 uses a constant speed prop,as most of the all- out aerobats. You have to come back in aircraft size to maybe a 180hp Pitts before you get a fixed pitch prop. Tom

About that manuever called the spinner touch, I doubt you would be able to do it long, with no airspeed and the prop blowing down there wouldn't be any airflow going over the surfaces, thus making control very difficult.

I have seen more than a few attempt the spinner touch maneuver, but they apparently were either going tooooooo fast, or didnt have the reverse pitch props . For some reason, they always hit a lil toooooo fast to recover :spinnyeye. I think a few of them were unexpected though. The spinner touch turned into a spinner penetration, or shatter.


In all seriousness, I doubt the spinner touch would ever become a reality, due to the inherent instability of the plane in "reverse", as well as what effects the instant change of thrust would produce. Would it create a reverse torque roll situation? How much yaw would be produced, and which way would you even attempt to correct it. Look at how hard a tailslide is with gravity on your side, much less going against gravity, and the normal flow of air over the surfaces. But it would be cool to picture. I mean, were people talking about the feasibility of the torque roll in 96, before Quique did it at the TOC? Maybe a mini turbine/turboprop combination with thrust vectoring?


I would like to see someone do a hover, do a complete cartwheel, then back into hover. Actually, I would love to be able to do it myself, but would settle to watch someone else do it for now . Don, that could be something to work on for the AA format.

Steve

Interesting concept; constant speed prop. Two point roll plus 3 of 4 point down seems about the right (pace) without rushing. On another topic, I found that the slop in my 8411 aileron servos in the big CAP turned out to be slightly "loose" H9 aluminum servo arm setscrews. I tightened them up about an eight turn and the slop was reduced by about 60%. I turned one aileron pushrod in a half turn and it took out most of the remaining slop. I will not need three servos per wing after all. Servos are still going strong after about 25 (flight) hours.
Don

Good Deal Don.