Well I got to say I got one big rush today when I finally flew my Goldberg Ultimate on high rates. I've had this plane for about a month. The weather has been lousy and the CG was really messed up. Well I finally got both the CG and weather straightened out. Keep two things in mind. I'm not really a very good 3D pilot and I have been flying a 1/4 scale Cap; but man, I loved this Ultimate. But here is what I am wondering about. I've never seen a plane that has the roll rate this thing has. It can do a snap so fast you almost don't see it. I am wonder if this plane can handle that kind of forces or do I have to detune her a bit. I have all throws set as recommended in manual.

Steve,

as long as it's built well and you have tail wires, you should be fine. I had all my throws on the CG Ultimate as maxed as I could get them. Like your's, mine was a total blast and wicked fast. Never had an issue.

I was talking with the freind who bought it yesterday. We were both saying how no flying stable should be w/o one.

Tried any Knife Edge yet? Thats an eye opener too!

One thing I tried to do (somewhat successfully) is to start and stop snaps and spins with a touch of softness. I did this by running about 60% expo. Hard to tell in the sky it flies so clean.

Happy flying!

Scott

Thanks Scott. I did find out why it was spinning so fast. I had been using a recommended throw for the ailerons because I didn't have a degree meter. Well I got one this weekend and it turns out the aileron throws were about twice the recommended maximum and my rudder was a little high also. It is a blast to fly and enjoyable, it you know what I mean. I actually like it's landing characteristics a lot. Has a very nice glide slope and landing speed; but can get really wild in the air when you want it to.

The one thing I am still adjusting to is the fact that it needs a lot of rudder when landing. If you land at low rates you got to be careful or you will run out of elevator. I think I still will be able to move the CG back a little when I get more time on her and this will help a little I think. I solved this problem by using high expo on the elevator to keep form overcontrolling her and still have the long throws.

PS: My plane does not have tailwires. Appears very strong. Actually, if I put tail wires on that will add a little weight to move the CG back and strengthen it. But I have not heard anyone say anything about needing to add tailwires before. Did you do this just as a precaution?

I am confusing my new D.C. Ultimate with my C.G. Ultimate. My CG didn't have tail wires either. I hammered it! I had every surface cranked as far as it would go. My new D.C. has hard points for wires and I will use them, as the whole back end is nothing but balsa.

I found a neat trick on landing.

Have you ever watched the way a Navy pilot lands on the carrier?

They are constantly "waving" the elevons. I tried this with the Ultimate and it comes in beautifully and slow.

It almost stalls but the ailerons are still very functional. Does perfect 3 pointers with very little roll out but the wheels just kiss the runway.

I think this could be a good third plane. It flies so easy. But can get radical if you want.

Lot's of fun!

All this talk has got me amped up to finish my new one. Just one 80" Cap in front of this to complete. Darn the bad luck

Hey you know a fun trick? Try this. pull a vertical up line, like the hammer head, then just as it comes to a stop hammer it all the way around, then tail slide. Lots of fun and safe to do as you've got plenty of altitude. It was a lot cleaner once I mixed out the coupling.

Hope you have as much fun with yours as I had with mine

Happy flying!

Scott

Blender

When I did my first blender with my Goldberg Ulti I thought is would explode. Thought that with all that stress that the wings would have cracked. After I did the second one I decide it would hold together. Until I decide to plow the ground with it.

Scott, My post above has an error in it. I meant to say it needed a lot of elevator when landing, not rudder. I think my CG can still go back about 1/4-1/2 inch but I already have 2.5oz of weight inside the tail. I should not have put the weights inside the fuselage, because I could probably easily have put the servos in the tail.

Do you remember were your CG ended up?

PS: I'm an ex Naval Aviator (A-4's), but I'm not sure what you mean by "waving the elevons" in a carrier landing. If you mean using the ailerons to maintain ball alignment not sure how that would help with speed. Now if you mean making a power-on landing at high angle of attack - that I understand.

I was watching a program on Wings. and every time I saw the Tomcat come in the Elevons were waving like no tomorrow.

So I started messing around to see what that did. I set the attitude for a three point landing. Controlled the decent with throttle and speed by wagging (or waving) the elevator. I think you'd have to try it to see what I mean. It worked really well. Almost harriers in.

I don't remember the dimension, when I flew inverted I just breathed on the elevator and I had lots of expo. So it was pretty neutral. That also helped me in KE.

Scott

I haven't broken my CG Ultimate yet, though havn't tried anything too extream - I don't have the throw on the elevators for real 3D stuff.

For landing I use high rates on elevator and 1/4 throttle.

I do have wires on the tail. Friend of mine had seen one without snap half a stab off, so recomended I have them given the power of my engine. I've a YS 120 FZ for power.

Sprink, could you post a picture of your wire reinforced tail for me. That would be nice. did you reinforce were you attached them at all.

I'll post a picture if I remember, but won't be til the weekend, my planes live in my parents garage.

I did reinforce where I attached them. I built in a hardwood support in front of the trailing edge of the fin and stab. Also wanted that so there was more for the epoxy to stick to when installing the hinges. I thought that half an inch of balsa was not enough. If you hold up a CG hinge next to a half inch of balsa you'll see most of the barb sticks out.

I used GP saddle clamps (they bend without breaking) to attach to the stab and fin and normal closed loop wire between pulled tight. I did read/hear somewhere not to make a complete loop of wire, as it can act as an arial and interfere with the radio. No idea whether true or not, but sounded reasonable so didn't want to risk it, hence plastic saddle clamps.

Hope this helps
Sprink

If for any reason you cart-wheel this plane you will break the stab or 1/2 of it, specially in the ARF version; that is why you see them most of the time with the tail wires, so this doesn´t happen that easy.

On a foot note, the original design by Peter Gordon has tail wires!!

for details check this:
http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/dgrounds.htm
there are other photos @
http://moleski.net/ULTBIPE/ultphoto.htm

enjoy!!

Splais, as promised a couple of photos of the tail wires.

This one shows the overall look of the wires from stab to fin. If you look carefully you can see the lower one attaching to the fuz.

And this shows a close up of the point the wire attaches to the stab.

Sprink

Thanks, that is a very clean install. I did not see any adjustment clevis on her. did you just snug everything up.

Yes. Be careful though you don't want the wires to pull the stab and fin out of alinement, they are supposed to stop that.

I did from fuz to each stab first, pulling each fairly tight so that the stabs were marginally bent down, then did the stabs to fin, pulling the last really tight. Hopefully the forces then cancel each other out and pull the stabs back in line. I did have to adjust on wire as it wasn't as tight as the other three.

Just a point of clarification:

The original ULTIMATE was designed by Canadian Gordon Price, not Peter Gordon.

I felt pretty good there for a second...

Thanks,

Peter Gordon

Scott H.,
Just for some clarification here. Your mentioning of an F-14 waving it's ailerons/flapperons as it comes in for a landing, and you doing the same. I think you are mixing apples and oranges here. The F-14, and many other fighter planes as well as others, as you probably know, are fly by wire. What ever the control surfaces are doing, does not have much to do with the pilots stick inputs, but rather depends on how the on-board computer(s) decide(s) these inputs should be transfoormed to the planes attitude. You can also see it every time a fighter, or other jet with high wing loading, comes in for a landing. The full flying horizontal stab is really working hard, not likely that the pilot is sitting there jamming the stick back and forth, but because of the high wing loading and slow speed, the stab is not very efficient, and therefore has to move alot to have any effect.
DKjens

I think the goldberg ultimate is a very formidable acrobat.

I had mine modified with bigger elevators and rudder. This is one plane you can do knife edges from horizon to horizon. also flat spins are a blast!!! and it recovers and an instant. Blenders are crazy and yeah i almost gave a couple of heart attacks to the guys watching me do it. I did'nt even had tail wires LOL!!! Bwahahaha

I also managed to waterfall it . That was before my engine dogged down and ever since could'nt get the power back.

I'm considering on installing a 21cc Echo grass cutter engine on it. Its extremely lightened with a custome muffler.

Sorry, can you explain please, I am confused. Don think I have mentioned F14s or flying tailsurfaces.

Sprink,
Sorry, that post was meant for Scott H.
DKjens