MUST READ!
10-14-2008 | 11:49 AM
#1
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (5)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: California
MUST READ!
Folks, here's a post from Robert Vess, of Vess propellors that he posted on another site:
This is a wonderful hobby with a bunch of great people in it. And there is a marvelous infastructure that supports all of us in every way imaginable. You can participate in a forum of fun and knowledge, pick up one of many magazines, or talk with countless RC enthusiasts to learn about anything you want so that you can expand your RC experience to any level. And the products that are now available to support your pursuits are wide-ranging and impressive.
But we must all recognize that all of this rests upon the fact that each and every person who provides these products and services to make our hobby flourish is expending time, sweat, and money to offer you something useful and unique while hopefully making a living in the process. It's the American Dream to provide for your family while doing something you truly enjoy.
Unfortunately, the world is littered with people with less-than-ideal morals who ignore the fundamental values of mankind in an effort to feed their greed. And we are in the midst of a few such people right here within our precious hobby. Let me give you one example that just so happens to involve my company, Vess Propellers.
When I set out to design and develop my props, I closed my eyes to the "norm". I started with a clean sheet of paper and used advanced engineering methods to compute blade shapes and twist distributions that were unique while offering some distinct benefits in performance. And you, the consumer, recognized the attributes of my products, chose to use them, and brought me a hard-earned piece of the market. This is how it's supposed to work: you use your mind, think outside the box, work hard for countless hours perfecting the design in the computer, flight test until it's right, sincerely support your products in the field, and then you reap some benefits if it meets public appeal, right? For most of us the answer to this is YES. But for some, they skip eveything but the "reap the benefits" part.
I have what I would consider to be a great customer base who are all quite passionate about my products. One such customer was at an event several months ago and was expressing the attributes of Vess Props to the owner of a major giant scale hobby distributor, thinking that he might be interested in carrying my line. That person arrogantly responded "I can pick up the phone and call one of 5 shops in Asia today and have my own Vess Props". Apparently this wasn't just idle bravado. I have recently obtained detailed documentation that this major, well adverstised, giant scale product distributor purchased one each of my propellers from one of my dealers and then shipped them to China to have copies made. This is not the stereotypical case of someone outside of the continental US copying our products but rather one of our own citizens initiating this act of theft and dishonesty againt his own countrymen! This is lower-than-low in the business world and exposes this person and his company for what they are.
But I am not going to name this person or his company. I am going to sit back and watch. And when the time comes that he decides to bring copies of my products to market, I'll involve the justice system accordingly. But, you can help too. You will know who this is if and when the copies begin to surface. Then it will be up to you to decide if his actions warrant your business. I understand that this is not the first time he has engaged in unethical business transactions and I suspect that more people will begin to speak out, too.
All I can say is that I hope you choose to support businesses that operate with integrity and honesty, have your best interests at heart, and show you each and every day through their actions.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and mull over it's message.
For those who don't know, Robert Vess is the real deal! It's people like him who make this hobby what it is.
Sincerely,
Chris Todd
This is a wonderful hobby with a bunch of great people in it. And there is a marvelous infastructure that supports all of us in every way imaginable. You can participate in a forum of fun and knowledge, pick up one of many magazines, or talk with countless RC enthusiasts to learn about anything you want so that you can expand your RC experience to any level. And the products that are now available to support your pursuits are wide-ranging and impressive.
But we must all recognize that all of this rests upon the fact that each and every person who provides these products and services to make our hobby flourish is expending time, sweat, and money to offer you something useful and unique while hopefully making a living in the process. It's the American Dream to provide for your family while doing something you truly enjoy.
Unfortunately, the world is littered with people with less-than-ideal morals who ignore the fundamental values of mankind in an effort to feed their greed. And we are in the midst of a few such people right here within our precious hobby. Let me give you one example that just so happens to involve my company, Vess Propellers.
When I set out to design and develop my props, I closed my eyes to the "norm". I started with a clean sheet of paper and used advanced engineering methods to compute blade shapes and twist distributions that were unique while offering some distinct benefits in performance. And you, the consumer, recognized the attributes of my products, chose to use them, and brought me a hard-earned piece of the market. This is how it's supposed to work: you use your mind, think outside the box, work hard for countless hours perfecting the design in the computer, flight test until it's right, sincerely support your products in the field, and then you reap some benefits if it meets public appeal, right? For most of us the answer to this is YES. But for some, they skip eveything but the "reap the benefits" part.
I have what I would consider to be a great customer base who are all quite passionate about my products. One such customer was at an event several months ago and was expressing the attributes of Vess Props to the owner of a major giant scale hobby distributor, thinking that he might be interested in carrying my line. That person arrogantly responded "I can pick up the phone and call one of 5 shops in Asia today and have my own Vess Props". Apparently this wasn't just idle bravado. I have recently obtained detailed documentation that this major, well adverstised, giant scale product distributor purchased one each of my propellers from one of my dealers and then shipped them to China to have copies made. This is not the stereotypical case of someone outside of the continental US copying our products but rather one of our own citizens initiating this act of theft and dishonesty againt his own countrymen! This is lower-than-low in the business world and exposes this person and his company for what they are.
But I am not going to name this person or his company. I am going to sit back and watch. And when the time comes that he decides to bring copies of my products to market, I'll involve the justice system accordingly. But, you can help too. You will know who this is if and when the copies begin to surface. Then it will be up to you to decide if his actions warrant your business. I understand that this is not the first time he has engaged in unethical business transactions and I suspect that more people will begin to speak out, too.
All I can say is that I hope you choose to support businesses that operate with integrity and honesty, have your best interests at heart, and show you each and every day through their actions.
Thanks for taking the time to read this and mull over it's message.
For those who don't know, Robert Vess is the real deal! It's people like him who make this hobby what it is.
Sincerely,
Chris Todd
10-14-2008 | 12:18 PM
#3
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Carrollton,
TX
RE: MUST READ!
See Microsoft and the Chinese software piracy war over anything MS distributes over seas. Piracy is big business over there and their government may say to the public its wrong but they do nothing to stop it. Same thing with the Chinese Milk scandal, they don’t care who they hurt or who has to pay to fix the problem as long as they get their money.
I'm all for Chinese middle class entrepreneurs that want make products and sell to us. I’m all for making a better mouse trap, but don’t “You know what down my back†and tell me its raining.
JDS
I'm all for Chinese middle class entrepreneurs that want make products and sell to us. I’m all for making a better mouse trap, but don’t “You know what down my back†and tell me its raining.
JDS
10-14-2008 | 02:50 PM
#4
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Silverdale,
WA
RE: MUST READ!
ORIGINAL: Same thing with the Chinese Milk scandal, they don’t care who they hurt or who has to pay to fix the problem as long as they get their money.
They won't fix the milk, btw, just blame the person who did it. Just like the lead paint on toys scandal.
This thing from Robert Vess is just disgusting, but shouldn't surprise anybody. I will personally stop buying from whatever company copies his prop, and I hope he is able to win his suits. Unfortunately the way patents/trademarks work is, the owner MUST fight EVERY infringement that comes up. Let just ONE go, and the patent can be declared null and void.
Even if this one distributor (who was it? There are only a few!) doesn't bring in these props, somebody else will. You will probably see Peakmodel or Hobbycity sell them soon. Unfortunately that is the way it goes. He can't stop them from making the props, but can go after individual importers only.
10-14-2008 | 03:05 PM
#5
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 819
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Carrollton,
TX
RE: MUST READ!
It is true they did it and executing people in a kangaroo trial is not justice its organized murder in the form of Government sponsored terrorism against their own people. Where is the proof............read the news and watch it happen. What’s the after math..........?
Oh we killed the bad guys it will never happen again. Who watches the killers? Communism = Organized Crime.
What’s all this got to do with Vess Props. Same as Software - what ever they (foreign governments that do not honor or uphold copyright laws) feel like they can get away with they will. Which is why we should freeze their assets and hold their money until they agree to make real changes in their laws? Killing the perps is sort of like Saudi Arabia telling us. Oh we killed the terrorist, FBI never gets to interrogate them, and CIA never gets to see them or talk to them. But they are helping the war on terror. Yeah who's side I wonder.
jds
Oh we killed the bad guys it will never happen again. Who watches the killers? Communism = Organized Crime.
What’s all this got to do with Vess Props. Same as Software - what ever they (foreign governments that do not honor or uphold copyright laws) feel like they can get away with they will. Which is why we should freeze their assets and hold their money until they agree to make real changes in their laws? Killing the perps is sort of like Saudi Arabia telling us. Oh we killed the terrorist, FBI never gets to interrogate them, and CIA never gets to see them or talk to them. But they are helping the war on terror. Yeah who's side I wonder.
jds
10-14-2008 | 03:15 PM
#6
Banned
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Tokoroa, , NEW ZEALAND
RE: MUST READ!
There are intellectual property laws in place that are designed to protect against this kind of thing but all too often the cost of protecting your rights exceeds the benefits that come from doing so.
As to not naming the company concerned I think that's a bad move since now *all* those who fit the description will be under a cloud of suspicion.
If Mr Vess has proof that this is happening then he has an obligation to all those who *aren't* stealing his designs, to name the one that is - otherwise his statement is rather unfair on them.
Also, without naming the offending party, it becomes possible that Mr Vess creates a new category of "offenders" namely those who buy *copies* of his props without knowing. I'm sure that the vast majority of people would prefer to see that Mr Vess received the rewards due him for his hard work and would not knowingly buy a Chinese knock-off of his props - but if they don't know who's selling them how can they avoid this?
Unfortunately, I don't have much time for people who make accusations without naming the offending parties. Come on Mr Vess - put up or stop complaining when people unknowingly buy copies of your product and those hawking them go laughing all the way to the bank.
As to not naming the company concerned I think that's a bad move since now *all* those who fit the description will be under a cloud of suspicion.
If Mr Vess has proof that this is happening then he has an obligation to all those who *aren't* stealing his designs, to name the one that is - otherwise his statement is rather unfair on them.
Also, without naming the offending party, it becomes possible that Mr Vess creates a new category of "offenders" namely those who buy *copies* of his props without knowing. I'm sure that the vast majority of people would prefer to see that Mr Vess received the rewards due him for his hard work and would not knowingly buy a Chinese knock-off of his props - but if they don't know who's selling them how can they avoid this?
Unfortunately, I don't have much time for people who make accusations without naming the offending parties. Come on Mr Vess - put up or stop complaining when people unknowingly buy copies of your product and those hawking them go laughing all the way to the bank.
10-14-2008 | 06:40 PM
#7
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (5)
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: California
RE: MUST READ!
ORIGINAL: XJet
There are intellectual property laws in place that are designed to protect against this kind of thing but all too often the cost of protecting your rights exceeds the benefits that come from doing so.
As to not naming the company concerned I think that's a bad move since now *all* those who fit the description will be under a cloud of suspicion.
If Mr Vess has proof that this is happening then he has an obligation to all those who *aren't* stealing his designs, to name the one that is - otherwise his statement is rather unfair on them.
Also, without naming the offending party, it becomes possible that Mr Vess creates a new category of "offenders" namely those who buy *copies* of his props without knowing. I'm sure that the vast majority of people would prefer to see that Mr Vess received the rewards due him for his hard work and would not knowingly buy a Chinese knock-off of his props - but if they don't know who's selling them how can they avoid this?
Unfortunately, I don't have much time for people who make accusations without naming the offending parties. Come on Mr Vess - put up or stop complaining when people unknowingly buy copies of your product and those hawking them go laughing all the way to the bank.
There are intellectual property laws in place that are designed to protect against this kind of thing but all too often the cost of protecting your rights exceeds the benefits that come from doing so.
As to not naming the company concerned I think that's a bad move since now *all* those who fit the description will be under a cloud of suspicion.
If Mr Vess has proof that this is happening then he has an obligation to all those who *aren't* stealing his designs, to name the one that is - otherwise his statement is rather unfair on them.
Also, without naming the offending party, it becomes possible that Mr Vess creates a new category of "offenders" namely those who buy *copies* of his props without knowing. I'm sure that the vast majority of people would prefer to see that Mr Vess received the rewards due him for his hard work and would not knowingly buy a Chinese knock-off of his props - but if they don't know who's selling them how can they avoid this?
Unfortunately, I don't have much time for people who make accusations without naming the offending parties. Come on Mr Vess - put up or stop complaining when people unknowingly buy copies of your product and those hawking them go laughing all the way to the bank.
(my opinon)
10-14-2008 | 09:20 PM
#8
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: Steamboat Springs,
CO
RE: MUST READ!
ORIGINAL: 50%plane
Unfortunately, the world is littered with people with less-than-ideal morals who ignore the fundamental values of mankind in an effort to feed their greed.
Unfortunately, the world is littered with people with less-than-ideal morals who ignore the fundamental values of mankind in an effort to feed their greed.
Just my 2 cents.
10-14-2008 | 11:11 PM
#9
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 3,775
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From: surrey,
BC, CANADA
RE: MUST READ!
Copying a prop is a simple task,most could easily do it without fuss.
Getting a proper center balance and good hard grain wood and airfoil is another matter.
Anyone in the Hobby should have some knowledge of this.People buying on line trying to save a buck or two,will end up with seconds and fakes.
That is how this world operates now.You want cheap crap,its there for you.
You want performance,do some research,and buy a tested item.
Getting a proper center balance and good hard grain wood and airfoil is another matter.
Anyone in the Hobby should have some knowledge of this.People buying on line trying to save a buck or two,will end up with seconds and fakes.
That is how this world operates now.You want cheap crap,its there for you.
You want performance,do some research,and buy a tested item.
10-15-2008 | 12:21 PM
#10
RE: MUST READ!
Robert,
Thanks for all of your hard work. I hate to hear of anyone copying what you have worked for. I hope that you are able to correct this situation for the good of all parties involved, and hope to see you out ourclub again soon!!!
Alan
Thanks for all of your hard work. I hate to hear of anyone copying what you have worked for. I hope that you are able to correct this situation for the good of all parties involved, and hope to see you out ourclub again soon!!!
Alan
