FUNTANA Flat Spin ?
07-25-2003, 01:39 PM
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FUNTANA Flat Spin ?
I would like to find out how people are entering into a flat spin using the Funtana 40. I am new to 3D flying and I would like to learn to flat spin. From what I hear it is somewhat easy with the Funtana.
07-25-2003, 02:39 PM
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FUNTANA Flat Spin ?
Mine will not do a flat spin at all. I can flat spin a trainer, but not the FuntanaS 40. I contacted Hangar 9 and was told to put the CG all the way back, and it will do it. My CG now is within 3/16 of an inch of the rear most recommended point (5 11/16 by the book). I'm going to put the CG in the trunk (6 to 6 1/4 I think) and try again.
Mine won't flat spin, KE spin, or blender. It also won't waterfall.
I'm almost wondering if the ailerons have too much impact. Maybe it wants a rudder/elevator only spin with the ailerons centered???
Mine won't flat spin, KE spin, or blender. It also won't waterfall.
I'm almost wondering if the ailerons have too much impact. Maybe it wants a rudder/elevator only spin with the ailerons centered???
07-25-2003, 03:03 PM
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Go opposite ailerons
Tailtwister, you're close.
Mine will do some of the best flat spins I've ever seen, including big planes. I enter the spin just like any other plane, with all three surfaces deflected. Once you're in the spin you'll still be descending fairly quick. Add a little throttle, and the descent will slow. Then start backing out the aileron input, and gradually go the other way on the ailerons. You should end up will about 1/2 throttle, and almost full opposite aileron. Once you get there, the spin will be totally flat, and you should stop your descent.
I'm sure this plane will ascend while flat spinning (especially inverted), but I'm probably lacking the thumbs to make it happen.
My CG with the Saito .72 is within 1/16" of the rear of the recommended range. I don't quite have enough elevator throw for waterfalls, but it's close.
Good luck. Keep at it.
Steve
Mine will do some of the best flat spins I've ever seen, including big planes. I enter the spin just like any other plane, with all three surfaces deflected. Once you're in the spin you'll still be descending fairly quick. Add a little throttle, and the descent will slow. Then start backing out the aileron input, and gradually go the other way on the ailerons. You should end up will about 1/2 throttle, and almost full opposite aileron. Once you get there, the spin will be totally flat, and you should stop your descent.
I'm sure this plane will ascend while flat spinning (especially inverted), but I'm probably lacking the thumbs to make it happen.
My CG with the Saito .72 is within 1/16" of the rear of the recommended range. I don't quite have enough elevator throw for waterfalls, but it's close.
Good luck. Keep at it.
Steve
07-25-2003, 04:23 PM
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FUNTANA Flat Spin ?
I flew my Funtana / Saito 91 Wednesday for the first time. My CG was at 6" back. Upright flat spins were very good but not excellent. Inverted flat spins lost very little altitude, but I'm sure I can get it to climb rapidly with more CG work. I moved my CG back to 6 1/4" and am going to try that out...it might even end up at 6 1/2" or more.
For these types of maneuvers, in addition to a rearward CG, full deflection is essential. I have about 90 degrees of total elevator (though I could use more) and 90 degrees of total rudder (can't get any more without hacking the elevators). Use some expo (I'm using 50% and might even go higher) with the 3D rates to keep things manageable around center.
I enter an upright flat spin just as Steve described but I (typically) don't use aileron during the entry...just full left rudder and full up elevator (Note: Using left aileron will certainly make the plane enter the spin quicker, I just forget to do it most of the time!) To flatten the spin I slowly add throttle and right aileron. Eventually I end up at full throttle...this speeds up the rotation.
An inverted flat spin is similar except the elevator and rudder directions are reversed...down elevator, right rudder. Planes tend to lose less altitude when spinning inverted...I think that's because the pilot can see the ground coming at him.
I usually enter an inverted flat spin by doing a blender. A blender is nothing more than a downline axial left roll transitioning to an inverted flat spin by adding full down elevator and full right rudder, then adding right aileron / throttle to flatten and speed the rotation of the spin. The 'violence' of the blender is controlled by the speed at which the down elevator and right rudder are added. Going full throw immediately is impressive but it stresses the heck out of the airframe. I would strongly suggest AGAINST using any throttle until the inverted flat spin is fully entered...YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! Eventually I end up at full throttle here as well. On the second flight of the Funtana I discovered that I had enough down elevator authority to push completely out of the inverted flat spin and exit the manuever upright and wings level...very cool, and once again, this will be even better with a farther aft CG. I'm going to work on blender transitioning to torque roll next since I know that I have enough down elevator to pull it off.
Be aware that too much opposite aileron in either an upright or inverted flat spin will tend to flip the plane out of the spin. There is a 'sweet spot' for the opposite aileron stick position, and it can be a moving target during the spin. Practice is the key!
Hope this helps,
-Tom
For these types of maneuvers, in addition to a rearward CG, full deflection is essential. I have about 90 degrees of total elevator (though I could use more) and 90 degrees of total rudder (can't get any more without hacking the elevators). Use some expo (I'm using 50% and might even go higher) with the 3D rates to keep things manageable around center.
I enter an upright flat spin just as Steve described but I (typically) don't use aileron during the entry...just full left rudder and full up elevator (Note: Using left aileron will certainly make the plane enter the spin quicker, I just forget to do it most of the time!) To flatten the spin I slowly add throttle and right aileron. Eventually I end up at full throttle...this speeds up the rotation.
An inverted flat spin is similar except the elevator and rudder directions are reversed...down elevator, right rudder. Planes tend to lose less altitude when spinning inverted...I think that's because the pilot can see the ground coming at him.
I usually enter an inverted flat spin by doing a blender. A blender is nothing more than a downline axial left roll transitioning to an inverted flat spin by adding full down elevator and full right rudder, then adding right aileron / throttle to flatten and speed the rotation of the spin. The 'violence' of the blender is controlled by the speed at which the down elevator and right rudder are added. Going full throw immediately is impressive but it stresses the heck out of the airframe. I would strongly suggest AGAINST using any throttle until the inverted flat spin is fully entered...YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
Eventually I end up at full throttle here as well. On the second flight of the Funtana I discovered that I had enough down elevator authority to push completely out of the inverted flat spin and exit the manuever upright and wings level...very cool, and once again, this will be even better with a farther aft CG. I'm going to work on blender transitioning to torque roll next since I know that I have enough down elevator to pull it off.Be aware that too much opposite aileron in either an upright or inverted flat spin will tend to flip the plane out of the spin. There is a 'sweet spot' for the opposite aileron stick position, and it can be a moving target during the spin. Practice is the key!
Hope this helps,
-Tom
07-25-2003, 04:38 PM
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Exit...stage left
Oh yeah...one thing that noone has mentioned is how to get OUT of the flat spin! Release the elevator, add opposite rudder and lots of power...that will get you out. I've seen people freeze and hold the elevator in while trying to exit the flat spin...this nearly always ends up with the plane spiralling into the ground and being totalled. Some planes will exit the spin easier than others...the Funtana exits easily.
I've heard people say that they tried everything to get out of the spin but nothing worked. I haven't experienced this but it could be a bad trait of certain airframes, a high wing loading, or inadequate control throw.
The key is to remember what to do, practice very high at first, and don't freak out!
-Tom
I've heard people say that they tried everything to get out of the spin but nothing worked. I haven't experienced this but it could be a bad trait of certain airframes, a high wing loading, or inadequate control throw.
The key is to remember what to do, practice very high at first, and don't freak out!
-Tom
