pizazz modifications
 

I have decided on a Pizazz for my first 3d plane as they are easily available here in Australia, however they are know as a whizz here. Anyway, just wondering about any mods for this plane, such as elevator servo's in the tail and a rudder pull-pull set up. As well as the does and don'ts of the kit. Has anyone done these mods? If so could you tell me how you did them or post some photo's. I plan to run a os46fx with APC 12x4 prop to start with to see how it goes, then I may step it up to a 60 or a 70 4stroke. Do you think it will hover on the 46 if I keep the weight down?

Thanks [:-]

RE: pizazz modifications
 

i bought a pizazz to replace my ultra stick 40. a thunder tiger pro 46 with a macs pipe would pull the us 40 out of sight. the pizazz is a little lighter. the tt pro 46 w/ pipe and a 11-7 prop on the pizazz would hardly pull any vertical. i guess because of the thicker wing. i tried a 12.25 - 3.75 prop and got better vertical but still not enough. i put a mds 58 in the pizazz and it hovers at 5/8 throttle. i would like to try a saito 72 in it. i would definately use more than a 46, perferably a 60 . i had to add alot of down thrust to the engine. it would climb like crazy at full throttle, 2 washers under the rear mounting holes on the engine cured that problem. that was after i almost crashed it on the first flight when i couldn`t keep the nose down, i don`t know how i got it back down safely? added 1 washer & tried it again & got almost the same effect. now it flys good. even with the 58 in it, it needed nose weight, so rear mounted servos might be a good idea. its a real fun plane to fly, it takes off fast with the 58 in it & it really slows down to land. i put as much throw on the control surfaces as i could get on them , cut them down with dual rates and used the expo. suggested in the manual. the expo. really helps me fly it. i hope this helps you . have fun
conk

RE: pizazz modifications
 

I'm using an OS 61FS 2 stroke on mine with a 14x4W APC. Barely hovered with a 12x6 but it's a rocket with the 14x4.


Dan
[link=http://www.happyhangar.com]Happy Hangar[/link]

RE: pizazz modifications
 

Needs counterbalances...

RE: pizazz modifications
 

There has been a hugh amount of info posted here on the Pizazz and what numerous people have done with them. Do a search on Pizazz and you should be overwelmed with more than you ever wanted to know.

I've powered mine with a TT54FS, Saito 72 and YS 63. The plane comes in at about 5.5 lbs. Unless you take extraordinary measures to take a lot of weight out I don't think a OS46FX will handle it. Maybe with a mousse can. The TT54 sure wasn't enough but both the Saito and YS were

RE: pizazz modifications
 

Mine bit the dust after 500 or so flights when the elevator servo quit. An Irvine 46 would not hover the plane however the 53 did with no effort. Nice since the 53 is the same case as the 46. Most 60's are quite a bit heavier. Change ALL the hardware to ball links and fiber rods. Extra weight will be no problem in the tail as mine needed tail weight to hover well (even with a lighter engine). I would like to see this plane with 3" more fuselage length.

EXCAP232

RE: pizazz modifications
 

no wood dowel pushrods, higher torque servos, I had a TT 61 mounted as close to the firewall as possible and it balanced in the middle of the recommended range with the battery behind the tank, I was moving the cg back and had the pack as far back as the rear of the wing when I lost it on a deadstick. Too low, Too far away. I replaced it with a funtana and the jury is still out on whether that was a good idea, the snow has come after only a handfull of flights :(

Here is what I have done
 

Servos
Throttle - Hitec HS 5475HB Standard Digital
Rudder - HS5975HB Digital
Elevator - HS5245MG X 2 mounted staggered in the fuselage back by the tail
Aileron - Futaba S9001 x 2

Really like the digitals. Fast and accurate.

Engine Saito 72. Would go with YS 63 or Saito 91 if I were you. Definitely go four stroke for swinging a larger prop. Started with 13x6 then 14x6. Too much pitch and too fast - not for me just for the plane. Have someone at the field that has a profile and can't fly very well. All he does is fly full throttle and around in circles. Currently have a 15x5 on it. Great prop slows down wonderfully and really torques for tumbles and flips.

Put TALL aftermarket Ultra Stick gear with H9 3.5 inch lightweight wheels. This is necessary with a 15" prop.

I used ball link ends and a pull pull on the rudder.

My CG is 1/2" back from recomended setting.

Here are tail mounted servos
 

They are staggered so only the top sticks out of the fuselage. I just CA'd a small piece of ply on the inside to screw into.

RE: Here are tail mounted servos
 

Do you have some video of your Pizzaz flying??

Thanks!!

RE: Here are tail mounted servos
 

This really isnt the best airplane for 3D.

RE: Here are tail mounted servos
 

you're right, this is a fun fly airplane!!

RE: Here are tail mounted servos
 

Don't have any video, sorry. I get to the field with my 2 and 5 yr old boys and it's all I can do to concentrate on flying. Got in an hour straight this afternoon. Hi 60's and no one at the field. Landed just enough to fuel up and go (4Xs). 12 oz on Siato 72 just enough to squeeze 15 minutes. Need some more right and down thrust - even more so with 15x5. Goes left and just a bit up on vertical.

If I can master knife edge on this I will be set. Short coupling makes the slightest movement a bit of a scare.

It will slow down to a crawl. With 15x5 it will literally stop and not stall.

Full travel on elevator makes it want to snap at anything above say 5 mph. Gentle but not comfortable.

Really don't know what full throws gain in this bird. At the slightest speed it moves way too fast to manipulate a tumble, lomcevak, etc. About half ailerons and elevator with full rudder throw seem about right. Beyond that it is just a blur, even post stall.

It's a reall catch 22. Have to keep it in close to keep visibility up. But in close only gives one less than a second to recover from a tumble, flip, etc when the exit is unexpected. Came close a few times today.

Have a SPAD that hovers like a baby. It has two stroke on it. If it falls to the gound it gets picked up and flown again. I know this wouldn't happen with Pizzaz.

Reinforce the landing gear area with some coarse fiberglass. It comes apart easily. I had a dead stick and came down in a stall from about 4 inches and off came the gear and the lower hatch. Easy repair but nonethe less PITA.

If anyone has come up with some good spins or tumbles with this plane please let me know. It will take all the full throttle ups and downs I can give it. I do not have any stock control linkages though. I will say full throttle and some guts gets it to some interesting things. The more repetitive you can do rolls or snaps or tumbles the more violent and faster they become.

I think a 4 Stroke and a 15" prop (1/3 wingspan) is coming close to what a real Sukhoi can do in repetitive rolls, spins etc. I like the idea of the 1/3 Sukhoi but without a huge pro being gear driven I think the whole perspective is lost. That is the only claim to fame the Sukhoi has is the huge lower pitch prop the gear driven drive train the plane can handle. But no one yet even begins to understand the advantage of the big prop and the torque it can throw around.

I have heard that mixed arguments about RC vs Real. RC - engines can't swing a big enough prop to get enought torque to: Lomcevak and get real torque rolls (BS). RC can outperform real in a weight to power (true).

What real plane does anyone know that could swing a prop 1/3 of the wingspan. Not even the Sukhoi which is easily twice the weight of an Extra, Pitts or anything else I can think of. So we can throw a prop larger than a real plane at much less weight than a real plan.

Now everyone lok at Sean Tucker, The Bulldog Pitts. Goiulian, Chambliss (you can drink and fly) etc. We should be able to flip and get some climbing tumbles etc that really kick but.
Any ideas?

RE: pizazz modifications
 

have pizazz with os 46fx piped....will hover but no 3d [:o]


I also changed the stock hardware out, went with 4-40 stuff but still used the dowels......what a b**ch


I can sometimes get it to harrier with wind and by not trying to use all the elev throw.


will do walls, and I can get it into a powered flat spin, but it looks really stupid if you ask me.


Running a 11x4 prop, I use mine to hover with, this plane is even hard to hover, but it is good practice for my 33 and 35 %

Want a true 3D .40 size plane? Get a funtana


just got mine.......recovering right now, very ugly stock

RE: pizazz modifications
 

oh


BTW, the funtana is getting a satio 100, not sure if a .40 would do this one

RE: Here is what I have done
 

MAN!! You do not mess around, .......the $1000 fun fly LOL!

RE: Here is what I have done
 

Thanks guys, I think I will still use the 46 to start with, and see how it goes. Then if needed I'll step it up. Have heared a lot of people say a good 46 matched with the right prop is enough power. But we'll see in time. :D I can't really afford all digital servo's! Will the hitec HS425bb be good enough for moderate 3d? (i.e. Hover, torque roll, waterfalls, harriers, elevators) Also is a 5 cell Rx batt pack a good idea?

RE: Here is what I have done
 

I am running 4 cell 1100 mah. Get 4 15 minute flights off full charge. 5 cell would add even more weight - I wouldn't do it.

RE: Here is what I have done
 

I doesn't matter if you have jumbo servos in this plane, it will NOT 3D. standards are ok, I have a hitorq on my rudder.


Hover - yes but difficult due to short tail
Torque roll - a little with a 46. hard to keep rolling
Waterfalls - absolutely out of the question, will not stall, just chases tail in a fast circle
Harriers- way too much wing rock, may get a partial harrier in wind, plane does not like high alpha
Elevators - again, out of the question, the wing rock is terrible

I have tried spoilerons, and flaperons to resolve, still no 3d


this is not a 3D plane, just a cool looking fun fly, H9 3D .40 size plane is the Funtanta.


You might want to also look into the Morris hobbies profile 3D planes, or the GP ucand3d .46


I bought my Pizazzz with the hopes of 3d, but it is not in the cards, it is not a lot of money, but there are other planes out there that perform better......much better

RE: Here is what I have done
 

Agree 100%!!!
:D

RE: Here is what I have done
 

I would have to disagree.

If you keep it very light and the CD way back, it will do anything you want, and much slower.

Use a small AAA NiMh pack, not nicds.
Drill the gear or use something lighter.
Use Ultra light tires.
Use a mini or micro on throttle.
Use HT mini's on the ails.
Use P/P on rud and a carbon or glass rod on ele.
Use a wood prop, not a heavy APC.
No spinner, pilot, canopy or anything not necessary.
With a .46 on a light pipe (Macs) it will come out just over 4 lbs. and easily pull from a hover with an 11x6, so it'll be fast enough to do something other than hover.

Now, move the CG (batt pack) back until the tail starts to sag at low speed when the tank is low.
This plane is very forgiving tail heavy, most aren't.

A 4 lb. Pizzaz is night and day from a 5.5 lb. one.

Kirk

RE: Here is what I have done
 

I have heard that micro or mini servos burn out or srtip gears on 3d and funfly aircraft very quickly due to the amount of work they have to do. Is that true? If the pizazz doesn't 3d what can it do? Also I thought a wood prop would be heavier than a glass/nylon prop.

Servos and weight
 

Digitals - had the rudder laying around from a burnt up Sig - smooth and fast for rudder. The tail servos just seemed to fit. Wanted to try a digital on throttle to see about a real accurate idle - definitely worked.

Minis anywhere would be way slow but light. Used to always use mini on throttle but an ultra low idle with the accuracy of a digital makes it slow on a dime. Won't use any more slow servos.

Lighter battery pack would be awesome.

Keep it light yes.

Lightest wheels Kavan. I have H9 light wheels but Kavan at least an ounce lighter.

Still push for 4 stroke. A world of difference between a 14x6 to a 15x5. Started with a 13x6. Too much pitch and your back in the 80's with an Ugly Stick on a 60 with a pipe.

Bigger the prop more right thrust and you will need some down.

This plane gains nothing with speed.

I am 1/2" back from recommended rear and it could go much further back. I can literally stop in the air nose up with no stall.

I was hoping for more out of this plane. But it does keep you focused when you ring it out.

RE: Here is what I have done
 

Kirk


that is great that you have this plane at 4 lbs, and I am sure it flies nice...........but will it 3D ????



This also seems like a lot of work as compared to to a UCD3D .46, funtana .46 or profile that will fly 3D stock out of the box.


The days of the pizazz are over, look on horizons web stite.......it is gone.


Not saying that it is a bad plane, it is a cool plane that looks cool in the air and out of a hover.......but for 3D there are MUCH better solutions out there.


IN MY OPINION




To answer the question "if not 3D what will it do?"


Rolls fast or as fast as any plane I have ever flown

lands at walking speed or less

Cool snap roll to hover, snap roll to hover, snap roll to hover........

Very fast plane for such a thick wing, even with a 4 pitch prop

Chase the tail loops


basically 2 year old fun fly stuff, not up to the new age of fun fly 3D

RE: Here is what I have done
 

Still sounds like an mad plane to own!!! I will still get one.... Will it do knife edge loops? Has anyone made it fly backwards? Always thought that is one of the coolest tricks a plane can do!! I'm not after an all out 3d machine as I am new to 3d flying. Spent most of my time doing sport aerobatics. Is a pull-pull setup on the rudder a good idea or should I run the standard setup? Never used a pull-pull setup before! Is it hard to do? :D:D:D

RE: Here is what I have done
 

Igodin
I would consider a 40%, all fiber, DA-200 powered Edge a good 3D plane.

Do we exclude anything that is less from the 3D category???

If so, all the planes you mentioned are just 'FunFlys'

Most 3D/funflys do most maneuvers well, and others not so well. No plane does everything perfect.

Thats where a good setup, a good pilot and lots of practice come in. If it was easy, it wouldn't be any fun!!!!

I have more respect for a guy that can wring-out a 40 size down low than a guy that can hover a $6K 40% in one spot all day.

The whole thing is relative anyway. It's all about the plane and the set-up you're used to, not what someone else has. I don't use expo or DR's. Some can't fly 3D without -'doesn't mean it's wrong.

My bro just finished up one of these new 'fan fold' profile electrics. UNBELIEVABLE!!!
But is it a 3D plane since it's made of foam- only 30 inches- a profile- powered by batteries???? Or, cause it doesn't do this one part of this one maneuver very well with a tail wind and a full tank of fuel and......

By the way, the biggest reason you're not going to see too many more Pizzazs is because of the hinges and the build quality and knowone's going to ship it back for that.
I just had Horizon send me a role of white and red Ultra cote.

Kirk

Answer to Bigsport
 

I have not been able to get mine to knife edge loop. It falls out on the bottom half. MY Cg is not WAY back though. It is where it started at 1/2" back from recommended rear (don't remember where that is).

Flying backwards - nope. And I am running 15x5. That should give stability that I don't think anyone else has tried. 15x4 wouldn't work. Full throttle on a 15x5 is not very fast. Speed 14x6 but we aren't racing with this plane.

Pull-pull is easier than setting up a dowel stick push rod and is as slop free as the servo you are using. The best control setup by far. Second would be a totally stiff pushrod with ball ends on each end. Pull pull wierd to setup the first time you do it. After the first you will wish you could have it on every control surface.

This plane is very short coupled. If you (I) try to knife edge it gets very squirmy and minor inputs make a big difference. I figure that is a good thing. Take a small plane that is very sensitive in knife edge. I fgure this is a good thing. If I can figure out how to knife edge this than my 33% Extra will be cake.

I have read more bad reviews about UCD3D than good. Maybe they just wanted to to make something that people could buy to be easy to hover.

Well I have a SPAD. I first flew my friends after not flying for 18 years. I hovered it great right off the bat. Second time I hovered was so comfortable I hovered 10 feet off the ground. Well it came out inverted and I did not notice. Lannded in a briar patch. I had to yank it out. Plane was fine. Anyone wants to do 3D should build one of these. They fly like monky poop. It will teach a plane flyer two thing - throttle cotnrol and rudder control. It is amazing flying something that you know if you plant it it will cost you at most $20.

RE: Here is what I have done
 

Less than 3D.......the pizazz is NOT in the 3d category, even a 33% pizazz is not in the category. It is not a question of if the plane is good or bad or so so at 3D, IT DOES NOT DO 3D, and that was the question


To reiterate on the previous subject, the UCANDO, funtana, and many profiles WILL DO 3D. they are in this category!! will they do it as well as a 33%-40% plane....NO, but they will at least do the 3D moves.

I once saw a guy hover an overpowered .60 cub, I used to hover my trainer.......does this make them 3D machines????? NO, so why would the pizazz be one.


The original subject was "will the pizazz do 3D" THE ANSWER IS NO, but I also listed the "fun fly" stuff this thing will do.


I know you are defending this plane because you have one, I HAVE ONE TOO, I still fly it! But if you like 3D and want a 3D trainer there are BETTER options, if you want a fast fun fly plane that does "fun fly" stuff that scale planes will not do get a pizazz.......................


Just don't ask it to do 3D, the pizazz will "just say no!"


Do we need to keep going around on this? I have more...... I have thought of going out and smashing my pizazz in the ground just so I no longer feel compelled to answer this thread..........


it will not 3D, it will not 3D, it will not 3D


hover is not 3D

any questions?

RE: Here is what I have done
 

OK!!! Fine it won't do 3D, No need to get cranky and go smashing your planes!!!! I was unsure of the plane capabilities because I have never seen one fly before!!! I just wanted to check and see as I would like to get into 3d aerobatics, as most my time aeromodelling has be spent on sport type models. I did have a Sig fazer at one stage, however It was my third plane and I had never heard of 3d aerobatics then. Weather or not a fazer will 3d is a differnet subject. From what has been sad the pizazz is a great plane, however some people say it can do different things. I guess this comes down to each persons setup, as it is unlikely that any two people will have exactly the same setup. Anyway I still plan to get the pizazz or whizz as it is called here. Weather or not I can get it to 3d is a matter of time, but I'm sure I have fun trying. I plan on doing some of the mods suggested here, and if it don't 3d then I'll move to something that will and keep the pizazz as a funfly plane. Thanks for all the help!

Oh, I can still get back the fazer I had as I sold it to my father and he still has it on the shelf! (he's never flown it) Are they any good for 3d? Just something to keep in mind!!!!!

RE: Here is what I have done
 

3-D or not the Pizzaz is a blast to fly. I would not discourage anyone from owning one. I personally could not get mine to 3-D. It would knife edge and knife edge loop,but you had to stay on it the whole time. It also had to have the fuel tank less than half full.
I started out with a .50 2-C on mine. I mounted it last. The servos cant be moved around in the plane for balance. So I mounted everyting but the engine. Then put it on the CG stand and slid the motor back and forth to get the CG I wanted. I had my battery behind the servos. You can slid it back there with the servos out. Then the servos hold it in place. It flew great with this setup but needed more power. After I landed it inverted on the runway.(another story) I decided to put a Saito .72 on it. I slid it back on the mounts as far as it would go. I had to cut a U in the tank cover to clear the intake pipe. With this setup I had to turn the gear backwards to get the CG back were it was. The difference in power was night and day.This is the idel setup for a Pizzaz. Mine is on mothballs right now. My flying skills have improved a bunch since I put it up. All this talk makes me want to get it back out and try it again. Maybe with spoilerons this time.

Good luck,
David

RE: Here is what I have done
 

I agree that it is not a bad plane, just will not 3D



The fazer will not 3D either.