Sure, I see your point -- a large plane with large wing area can and will carry more weight compared to a small one. I was mostly comparing apples to apples. My Supreme at 9.0 pounds, versus Troy's at 10.5. My Partner at 9.75 versus mine at 10.5 versus a Pinnacle at 10.5. (The Partner has a 1007 sq. in. wing. The Pinnacle 1038. That is a very fair comparison to pass judgments on weight. The Partner and Pinnacle are really the same design). There is a whole lot of difference in flying characteristics with just 3/4 pounds of weight, and I much prefer the lighter version (try adding 12 oz lead to your favorite plane). A heavier plane feels very heavy after a long downline making the turn to horizontal, or the landing and stall speed. Rolls are different and a little less forgiving. Horizontal flight speed can be slowed down with a light plane, or flown fast, whereas a heavier one must maintain sufficient speed. The context of what I am saying is based on a particular plane, not all pattern planes of all sizes. Oh, if you take off with 24 ounces of fuel versus 16, that will really increase the wing loading. So 9.0 pounds with 16 ounces fuel versus 10.5 with 24 ounces fuel. Quite a difference.

I really believe that an 18 ounce panel is too heavy for the Pinnacle. Wouldn't you prefer each panel 3 or even 5 ounces lighter if you did not give up structural integrity? I sure would. A lighter panel carries far less momentum. Snap and spin recoveries are faster. Landings are slower. If each panel weighed 13 ounces, you would save 10 ounces on the airframe. It can be done with sufficient strength. I do not think it can be done by painting over a balsa skinned wing. That just adds unnecessary weight.

It is something that I would like to see corrected. I would like to see a Pinacle at 3/4 pounds lighter. If you are saying they are good enough, then I disagree. The manafacturer can and should correct this. Or at least provide a foam core, unpainted option.

But the thing that really compelled me to say something about this, was that Troy seemed to be comparing the Oxai Pinnacle weight to his Supreme weight -- as if a ZNline plane is no lighter than the Oxai. Here is the quote by Troy: Of note I flew ZN Line Supreme models 2 years ago and these models completed at 5.75lbs each with landing gear struts no wheels or pants and the models flew at around 10lb 6oz. But my Supreme flies at 9.0 pounds. Sure, you can build a ZNline heavy and say it is heavy, but what I am saying is that the Oxai is in fact heavy, whereas the ZNLine kit is made to come out light. I personally like the lighter airframe. I would be more interested in the Oxai if it were lighter, and this information should be useful to the manufacturer if they want to create a better product. If the demand already exceeds their ability to make them fast enough, then it probably does not matter, and you guys will keep on buying because they look nice. And they are really nice, but could be better at 12 ounces lighter.

I say do not be ashamed to tell the manufacture what you want. It is your money, not theirs until they provide what you want. Perhaps I am a little too blunt. I don't mean to hurt anybody's feelings, but perhaps the manufacturer will pay attention and take on the challenge of creating a lighter product. It bet it would increase their sales and profits.

Sorry to ramble. I won't post more. I like the thread the way it started -- a build thread. The plane looks very nice BTW.

David