my stock AA with the lower wings removed comes in at 17.6 grams. add two more motors and you'd be at just over 20 grams. so you're not that far away from 1:1. if you were to shave some weight off the fuse, lightened the RX and did some other weight saving modifications, that little thing should be able to go straight up. granted, without an elevator, it would be hard to maintain a completely verticle path, but its fun knowing you could if you wanted! i may just have to try this, maybe use some didel 4.5ohm motors, that should give me more than 20 grams of thust with 4 motors. but then i might as well make a new airframe for it, and then i'm not even flying an AA anymore good thing i have enough projects to keep me busy...

nick