Mark,

I completely understand what you're saying. I was thinking that we all can agree on certain criteria such as the ones you suggested above. How about:

1. Nitro...built around the OS 160. This is cheap enough for many modelers who don't want to spend incredible amounts of money for a YS140 or something of that nature. Yet, the design will lend itself to the more expensive engines. As for electric, truthfully, I have to say that at least for me, just the initial outlay of motor and the lipos to drive about 2KW strikes fear to my bank account. At least with the OS 160 or even a more powerful Mintor engine would be more cost effective and should cut through the air without weathervaning too much. Heck let's make it flyable for any 2 stroke 120 size engine.

2. About improving existing designs, that's kind of difficult to say because I haven't flown many different pattern planes. I did own a Typhoon 2000 and I have to agree with most that the snapping ability needed some help. Other than that, it was fine. I guess I want a dead nuts plane. Something that is very neutral and will KE without trim, snap correctly, (ie: stall the wing but controllable stop at 1/4 snaps), etc. There are many designs out there that will do that but in this case, I'm thinking that if one brain can make a good design, then a hundred brains with something constructive to input would be phenomenal.

3. One or two piece wing. Since this is a roach, I was thinking about building from a crutch, much like several designs out there like the Typhoon. Therefore, I want to make it a 2 piece wing. This makes it easier to build and align accurately. If anyone has a better idea, please put it down.

4. I was thinking of a wood plane with come composite stuff for the cowl, canopy and possibly the belly. The fiberglass cowl because it can be cut up with cooling holes for different engines. I'm alsop opting for a fiberglass canopy so it will be an easier build. As for the belly of the plane, same as the cowl, some people might fly this plane for sport only and will use mousse can tuned pipes on a Magnum 120 s-stroke or the latest Hattori pipe on a brand spankin' new Mintor 170, YS 170 or OS 200 (the last two not for the public yet). Once we finalize a design, I'll make the plug and mold for the items and send you guys the parts just for shipping cost...and possibly just the amount of material used. No payment for the labor since we will all be working on our planes at the same time.

Basically, the deal is to make a pattern plane with a bunch of folks here willing to submit their design ideas that will be a true collaboration for a great flying plane. While pattern pilots can have wither a new primary plane that they helped design or a great secondary plane, sports fliers can have one heck of an awesome, point-it-where-you-want-it plane. I think this is a win-win situation for everyone.

If we have people that can design, people that have access to CNC routers, lasers, and wing cutters involved, it would be a much easier task.

Butch