thanks for the link to the vids bubbagates, i will download them now, i know his funtana vid was pretty cool on that thread a while back, i especially like when doing a rolling harrier, he would reverse the roll, then back, like 2 or 3 rolls then switch, it was like the plane was dancing, he a natural, some guys may never get there even with alot of pratice, i see it at my club, some have it to start with...anyway, i like to see vids like that whomever is doing the flying...it gets me trying new things as well