Found them, thanks. It's nice to be able to whack something once in a while without anything breaking. The ones I have still work ok, even with a chunk out of one, but when they were in good shape they flew a little better than the balsa stock set. One dent on the woodies and the plasticote sheds in mid air, very disconserting! hey, does a separate gyro calm the tail down better than the 4 in 1? I find it hard to fight the tail when i;m out in the open,(finally) and flying around. Not like hovering indoors, when I concentrate on holding it in one place..............Mule