Thanks wayne, I fly near a small town north of edmonton alberta canada, our club has 2.2 acres to land on and we are at approx 2200 feet above sea level. I'm new to the forums but like the increadable info. My background is mostly 1/2 A and 40 size flying. The idea is to learn on a stable twin (C-160) and then look for a smaller norvell powered twin or quad. I like the rare and unusual /difficult planes to fly. Thanks again........BILL